Decent Espresso Machines (DE1) - Any thoughts?

[>decentespresso]

Also: I saw the machine at MICE (and had a very enjoyable chat to you and Bugs (I hope I got that right)) but I cannot remember whether any of the parts are chrome plated. If they are, do a test run on something you can afford to scrap, ultrasonic energy can cause tiny pinholes in chrome plate which will then degrade far more quickly than you want it too.

Only the drip tray cover is chrome plated, and I keep that away from acids.

Nothing else inside the machine is "plated" with anything. I dislike plating, as it wears off and generally doesn't do well with thermal cycling. That's fairly vital for a home espresso machine that gets warmed and cooled all the time.

-john

[>decentespresso]

DE1XL Coffee Cart Upcoming Movies



We're just about finished building two variations on the same coffee cart: a two grinder/one DE1XL table (you've seen that one already in my posts) and a one grinder/two DE1XL table. Both use a $450 bamboo table from IKEA.

I've filmed Fabrice during the measuring, cutting and building of these carts, and we'll soon have a video series of all the steps, along with 2D drawings and templates, so you can do this yourself (or get a local handyman to do it).

I've also recorded a bunch of footage explaining the DE1XL model, used both countersunk or tabletop. That's what you can see in the photo above.

The DE1XL model is just about ready to start shipping and will be our latest model. We're expecting the metal parts to arrive in the next two weeks. The only final details we're still nailing down is the opacity and material of the white model's back cover.

As I find time to do some video editing, these movies will get posted, hopefully over the next 2 weeks.

-john

[lienemann]

Hi John @>decentespresso

I know this was years ago, but just on the off-chance you'll read this, did you by chance stain or treat the bamboo surface of the IKEA tables beforehand? Just curious as I'm considering buying one to set up my coffee station (they're still available, btw).

I've been reading through this thread post-by-post and I'm absolutely awestruck by your honesty, your genuine care for the customer and your pursuit of enabling people to make the best espresso possible. And while I'm not yet able to buy a Decent right now I sure will in the not so distant future. (A 'Decent Owner's Program' or payment plan to acquire one would be something to look into in my opinion)

[tompoland]

Not sure you got Johns handle right so I'll jump in. I bought an Ikea island and it came stained and water sealed. Not quite sure if that was your question

[>decentespresso]

A bit of weight looks good on you



Here is a render of the new DE1XL model we've been working on, when you use it as a tabletop machine.

Ben has made a lot of subtle changes here, enlarging some things, which changes the proportions of the shapes. I feel like these add up to a profile that has good visual integrity.

Here's a quick summary:
- the legs are a bit taller, and the thin section of the legs is quite a bit thicker. This hides the water tank much more than the DE1+/DE1PRO does.
- the legs are 6cm longer, to hide the tubing and wiring
- the tablet has a bespoke stand (João Tomaz's work), which moves the tablet forward and floating in the air.

Up until recently, I've only been showing the DE1XL when it's countersunk, but I think it looks acceptable on a table as well, which was my hope.

-john

[Lyrebird]

Your acceptable is other people's lovely. Nice design work.

[>decentespresso]

Too close for comfort



My engineer Fabrice has just finished making a two-group DE1XL tablet, on a 1.2-meter long bamboo IKEA table.

We did a lot of modeling of scenarios of this in Solidworks, to try to get a good workflow.

This design tries to minimize left/right-hand movement. Because portafilters lock-in from the left side, there is a lot of left-hand movement.

Here's the coffee making workflow:
1) you lock the portafilter in with your left hand,
2) after the shot completes, remove it with your left hand again.
3) Knock the puck out (still with your left hand)
4) put the portafilter into the pitcher rinser to clean out any remaining coffee grounds
5) then put the portafilter (still left hand) onto the portafilter stand of the grinder
6) and then use your right hand to put the funnel on and turn the grinder on.
7) remove the portafilter from the grinder with your left hand
8) tap (or groom) the grounds with your right hand
9) and tamp the portafilter, using your right hand to hold the portafilter
10) lock the portafilter back into the (left side) group, with your left hand
11) tap the START button with your right hand

If making a milk drink:
1) pour milk into a Decent milk jug, to 200ml (for a typical "cap")
2) use the right-side group to steam milk, while your shot is being made
3) keep a small cloth, wet with the pitcher rinser, to wipe down your steam wand

Yes, I know this is an obsessive analysis. But a coffee cart is going to do this 500 times a day, so I think this analysis needs doing.

I found the middle steam wand to be a bit cramped. It's not in constant use, but it'd be nice if it were easier to access. Locking the portafilter into the right side group tends to bang into the left side portafilter.

To help relieve the "crammed in middle steam wand" issue, I have now:
1) swapped the portafilter handles with the smaller group head hands, thus making shorter portafilters
2) will be swapping out the middle steam wand from our large "pro" DE1XL steam wand to our smaller DE1+/DE1PRO steam wand

This "coffee cart" is going into live testing on Monday, as it will be pulling shots at the "HOFEX" trade show http://hofex.com at Australian/Hong-Kong Redback Coffee roasters https://redbackcoffee.com.hk

My lead barista Hannifa will make hundreds of drinks over a few days' time at the Redback stand. Afterward, we'll then have a better understanding of how to improve this stand design further.

-john

[>decentespresso]

Right-handed people were shocked and appalled.



A few people wrote to me that they were shocked and appalled that I had suggested a left-hand-focussed workflow in my previous posting.

They worried that I was about to make a terrible blunder, and release a coffee cart product that nobody would want to use.

Just to be clear: WE ARE NOT MAKING COFFEE CARTS.

Here in Hong Kong, we're buying IKEA tables, and experimenting with our own ideas for workflow. You can make your own coffee cart workflow.

We have no plans to make coffee carts. We want to sell espresso machines. The IKEA cart is an example of one setup. We'll be posting videos of what we've done, and I'm hoping others will post what they end up doing.

My assumption is that everyone "knows best" what works best for them, and will organize Decent Espresso machines, grinders, tamping areas, pitchers rinsers, towels, all as they see fit. This is one of the great advantages of a single-group head, modular approach. Set up your workflow as you like.

In the attached render, we've removed the group head handles (they unscrew, so you can remove them too) and used a pitcher rinser to space each machine. This is just another idea: you should lay out out Decent Workflow however you like.

-john

[purplegreen]

Hi all,

Perhaps highly specific question, but posting here in case it is pertinent to others. I am fairly nomadic and am curious about which voltage would be most appropriate for a DE1+. I am currently living in Asia (220V/50Hz), but country hop around the world every couple/few years and want to make sure I won’t have trouble down the line. Eventually it will land permanently in 120v/60Hz. I am leaning towards buying 110v and just using it on a transformer while in 220v countries.

FWIW, I have been using a Gaggia Classic 110v (1450 wattage, according to the internet) on a 1000w transformer here for the last year and a half without issue. A wattage meter I have inline shows it has maxed out at about 1070w. I would probably get a bigger (1500w?) transformer to be safe.

So the question is, any issues expected running a DE1+ on a step up/down transformer?

Thanks,
Dan

[>decentespresso]

So the question is, any issues expected running a DE1+ on a step up/down transformer?

120V in a 220V country, with a transformer, is no problem whatsoever.

The espresso machine sitting next to me here in Hong Kong, that I do all my programming with, is 120V, and running on a variac. I'm actually giving it 120V->50hz, which is a bit weird, but it works fine as the machine automatically adjusts to the frequency. In other words, you need to adjust the voltage for the espresso machine, but it's okay to not adjust the frequency.

However, I would recommend upgrading your transformer to a 2200W one, that way you'll have full steam power.

Speaking of which, I was planning on selling this lightly-used v1.0 DE1PRO 110V machine at USD$2000, if you're interested (still fully warrantied). I recently switched to a 220V machine in my office to save space. I haven't listed this with anyone yet.

-john

[>decentespresso]

Here’s the final coffee cart, with workflow explained.

Now with a smaller central steam wand.

-john

[>decentespresso]

Hofex Coffee Cart



Here's what our coffee cart looks like, actually running at the Hotel Expo (HOFEX) monster-large trade show in Hong Kong.

Basically, we're making free coffee, with beans and milk courtesy of Australian/Hk based roaster Redback.

-john

[>decentespresso]

A Decent Point-of-Sale System?



I was asked if we had plans for a "point of sale" system.

Yes, that's exactly where we're headed.
- The DE1XL metal tablet stand can hold the tablet, secured to the table, customer facing. We've left space in front of each DE1 for this.
- One customer-facing tablet sits in front of each DE1.
- You can then order, and the order is sent to a queue.
- The barista sees the queue and at the end of each drink, taps on the queue items they will now make
- If a site needs more coffees/hour capacity, they buy more coffee stations, and the queue is automatically shared by all DE1s at the site
- So: you can order from any station, and your coffee will be made wherever it can be made most efficiently.
- For example: if you order an unusual coffee (decaf, or an expensive bean) you might have your order made at one of the two-grinder/one-DE1 stations. But the majority of the stations will be "caffeinated, house blend" two-group/one-grinder.

Other topic...

"Private cafés" are a big concept I'm running with.

Here in HK, the big law firms/finance firms don't want their staff having business conversations at the local Starbucks. So, they install a "company cafe" in their office lobby. That means free rent for the roaster, who operates it, bills the client, and we supply the equipment.

I suspect most large companies of office workers, would be interested in the private café approach.

Plus, it's a nice perq to use to recruit staff.

I'm using HK to proof out this idea, debug it, and then will start pitching it to roasters in other cities.

-john

[>decentespresso]

Video: DE1XL Overview

I just finished making this video explaining the differences between this new model and the existing Decent espresso machine models.

One thing I realized afterward, is that I never talk about the actual functionality of the machine in this video. It's the same functionality as for our other models, so I'm expecting people to watch those other videos if they want to know about how we make coffee. Seem reasonable?

All the parts for this new model are supposed to arrive in about two weeks.

We've been having a bit of trouble getting an opaque white back panel that laser etches nicely. The current white panels are a bit translucent.

The problem is that most plastics bubble in an unsightly way with laser etching, and I don't like screening because it wears off with time. We're hoping to finally have a solution to that this week, just about the same time when all the rest of the parts come in. The black panels were never a problem.

-john

[>decentespresso]

Two DE1XL in real-world use

Here is Hannifa using two DE1XL espresso machines at the same time. You can see her steaming while making the espresso, and her overall workflow around the IKEA coffee cart.

[baristafrenzy]

Hi All,
These are some specific questions for John, but I decided to post them here for the benefits of others. I've been searching for a while to finalize my decision for my next espresso machine (Heavily leaning towards DE) and I've been learning a lot about the Decent Espresso from this forum and others such as home-barista. Now to the questions:

• Is the white color chassis and natural color portafilter handles only limited to the DEXL? Can the same be done for a DE1+Pro?
• Is it possible to order a DE1+pro with a pro steam wand?
• Can you run a 220v version with a transformer from a 110v source? If so, what are the ideal transformer specifications?
• Does the 220V version reduces the steaming duration? If so, by how long?
• Is the DECafe the only machine that can produce steam and shot at the same time?
• Is there any plan in the future to expand this feature to other lines of DE?
• Do you have a projected price range for the DECafe?

[TampIt]

Hi All,
These are some specific questions for John, but I decided to post them here for the benefits of others. I've been searching for a while to finalize my decision for my next espresso machine (Heavily leaning towards DE) and I've been learning a lot about the Decent Espresso from this forum and others such as home-barista. Now to the questions:

• Is the white color chassis and natural color portafilter handles only limited to the DEXL? Can the same be done for a DE1+Pro?
• Is it possible to order a DE1+pro with a pro steam wand?
• Can you run a 220v version with a transformer from a 110v source? If so, what are the ideal transformer specifications?
• Does the 220V version reduces the steaming duration? If so, by how long?
• Is the DECafe the only machine that can produce steam and shot at the same time?
• Is there any plan in the future to expand this feature to other lines of DE?
• Do you have a projected price range for the DECafe?

G'day baristafrenzy

110V comments only (John / whoever can answer the rest).

I lived in the US for a while. Although Java"I respect his opinions greatly"phile reckons you can get adequate power out of a 110V system by going three phase I found it didn't work properly on three different properties.

That was with my six mono (for 5.1 channel) audio amps (220V Oz designed / modified Tillbrook 6000's). Each channel has 1.8KVA transformers. Plugging in the first two in their (pathetic) 3 phase system meant that the houses lights flickered in reverse time to every drumbeat - and that was before I wound the wick up to normal listening volume (i.e. loud enough for metal or classical orchestral). I also had issues with several coffee machines where the Oz 220V version could run continuously whereas even "the US 3 phase version" ran out of puff in less than 10 shots.

I would suggest you get the 220V version anyway and thank your lucky stars that the Decent is fairly light on power compared to the beasts I was dealing with over there. Oh, I have (and love) a DE1 - this is first hand info.

TampIt