Decent Espresso Machines (DE1) - Any thoughts?

[topshot]

I thought the "little people" were the ones who purchase products, who are the end users, the ones who actually keep business going by spending their hard earned on products.

They are more important than the "coffee celebrities" in the whole scheme of things.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Is Scotty Rao the bloke in Happy Days? Joanie's boyfriend?

[Gavisconi007]

Is Scotty Rao the bloke in Happy Days? Joanie's boyfriend?

Yep- that’s him

[338]

Always good to know your station in life.


Mr Rao deserves his celebrity status, I read on his blog he never, ever drinks espresso as he doesn't want to deaden his tastebuds for further coffees. I never drink anything but espresso as I don't want anything to spoil the taste of my first coffee.

[>decentespresso]

I thought the "little people" were the ones who purchase products, who are the end users, the ones who actually keep business going by spending their hard earned on products.
They are more important than the "coffee celebrities" in the whole scheme of things.

Yes, of course, I agree with you, which is why I made the perhaps misunderstood joke of referring to "everybody who is not a celebrity" as "the little people".

All in all, while it's nice to have many people at your booth, if they are just celebrity spotting and not engaging with the coffee or the machine, it's not all that useful to us.

On the other hand, at least two "celebrities" (WBC winners) told me they were going to buy my espresso machine, and one seems to actually be doing it this week, so that's quite nice. I don't believe in giving free machines out, because I found that they then don't value it and often don't even bother using it. Plus, their endorsement is much less sincere or valuable if they received it for free.

– John

[Lyrebird]

Did no one notice the quote marks?

John, maybe you should change "little people" to "punters" so we Aussies can understand you.

[woodhouse]

lol, for such a laid-back nation we have a few irate amongst us.

[338]

Apologies John, after some much focus in previous posts on coffee celebrities I did take it in a condescending way rather than the way you intended. Apologies.

[Otago]

Bringing discussion back on topic, has anyone seen the James Hoffman video discussing the Scott Rao high yield extractions on the Decent at Berlin?

The use of paper filters on the top and bottom of the puck and how this affects the fluid dynamics of an extraction are very interesting. I was particularly intrigued by the way in which the filters increased flow (seemingly because fines were prevented from blocking the filter basket) and, as a consequence, how the dose and brew pressure could be decreased. I thought it all very thought provoking and well worth a look.

[TampIt]

Long preinfusion, depth and age of roast

Bringing discussion back on topic, has anyone seen the James Hoffman video discussing the Scott Rao high yield extractions on the Decent at Berlin?

The use of paper filters on the top and bottom of the puck and how this affects the fluid dynamics of an extraction are very interesting. I was particularly intrigued by the way in which the filters increased flow (seemingly because fines were prevented from blocking the filter basket) and, as a consequence, how the dose and brew pressure could be decreased. I thought it all very thought provoking and well worth a look.

G'day Otago

I have now... Thanks for that.

Loosely related (i.e. no filters in sight, although I will try them later) there was a lot of discussion about preinfusion time & effect + depth and age of roast.

This is not for the dark roast or "chocolate bomb" brigade - standard espresso machines are more their bag.

One of the "youtube" comments prompted this post of mine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEXLftYYV8o

Tulio

5 days ago

The 'pause' after the pre-infusion is what baristas in Italy used to do in the 1960s, and got to be known as the Fellini move after appearing in one of his films. People with Pavoni Europiccolas still do this. but the paper filter is something I'd like to try.

(reply) John Buckman

4 days ago

Interesting! How long a pause? On the blooming shot we are putting in about 40ml of water in at the start, then holding pressure and pausing water for 30 seconds. (end)

I have posted a few times on CS that I used to do preinfusions of up to 40 seconds on my manual lever Electra "eagle". The lighter the roast, the more I would let it age (when it no longer smells green, use it) and the longer the preinfusion required. I learnt the preinfusion technique in 1979 from a Northern Italian gent when I did a 3 week intensive at Perth's top roaster (using their gear at the time). For crema aficionados, that means you get less (and less - the lighter the roast and the longer it needs to age) crema, however it lasts longer in the cuppa and tastes (a lot) better.

The comment about Rao's higher extractions are also interesting. When (post eagle) I went to the combination of a Mahlkonig Vario grinder (low retention, very even particle spread), a naked portafilter and VST baskets my extraction ratio went through the roof - to the extent that I had to swap to 7g single baskets for the first time in 25+ years. Even my 15gs were way too strong to balance as a latte. The flavour whack from straight espressos also became an overwhelming "finger in the light socket" affair rather than the "hot textured honey" I prefer.

Now I have added a DE1 to my setup. I still haven't had the time to have a real good play with it yet, so the next comment should be regarded as more a work in progress thought as I am still tinkering.

I have pulled a number of long preinfusion / sharp pressure kick / low, slow flow shots earlier - some of which I reckon actually topped the Electra. That is how I used to get the best cuppa out of my eagle.

Today an extreme experimental shot: I just pulled a 56.8(!)g shot out of my 7.2g VST whilst I waited (and waited, and waited) for it to blond. I cut it at exactly the blonding point and it tasted pretty good as an espresso and also well balanced as a latte after my first "curiosity sip". The coffee: light roasted Colombian about 3 weeks old, the grind was closer to coarse Turkish rather than fine espresso. It had around 30 seconds of very low water flow preinfusion, an 8 second pause, it was then set for 5 seconds at 9 bar (which it didn't quite reach) and then a "fast transition" low flow controlled (1.5 to 1.0ml slow transition) finish in two stages. The tablet graph looked awful, mainly due to the huge pressure bump and flow bump in the middle. The actual pour was the one of the closest I have yet seen to the Electra, which shows the difference between measuring inputs (even as close to the group as the DE1) and outputs. A scale would have shown nothing until after the peak and then a slow fairly even flow until I cut it at 43 seconds of actual shot time. Although this particular shot did not quite get the manual lever flavour, I am amazed at how long it took to blond and how balanced it was.

Anyway, food for thought.

TampIt

[level3ninja]

Bringing discussion back on topic, has anyone seen the James Hoffman video discussing the Scott Rao high yield extractions on the Decent at Berlin?

The use of paper filters on the top and bottom of the puck and how this affects the fluid dynamics of an extraction are very interesting. I was particularly intrigued by the way in which the filters increased flow (seemingly because fines were prevented from blocking the filter basket) and, as a consequence, how the dose and brew pressure could be decreased. I thought it all very thought provoking and well worth a look.

There was some discussion on it a month or so ago in this thread: https://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-e...st-result.html

[DamianB]

A very high yield ratio shot with Decent Espresso
4 way blend of beans from BeanBay

[338]

DamianB thank you for posting that, nice to see a CS poster posting about their DE. What is the brown line in the graph? Great photography!

[DamianB]

Thanks 338,
Brown is weight in the cup in grams, you can connect a bluetooth scale to the DE and graph the weight, you can also set a "stop at weight" value to end the shot
Blue is water flow into the group (ml)
Green is pressure behind the puck (bar)

I've had mine DE for 9 months, great machine, great community too, for me it's a whole lot more than just a espresso machine.
We use to love going on road trips, looking for quality cafes to visit, now we look forward to getting home.

[level3ninja]

That is a nice looking pour! Is the brown total weight? It looks like it is stagnant from halfway through