Decent Espresso Machines (DE1) - Any thoughts?

[>decentespresso]

Size and shape comparison: Breville BDB and Decent DE1PRO

I've finally gotten around to cleaning up and selling my BDB that we bought years ago.

I thought I'd take a video of the two machines, side-by-side.

It's interesting to compare the size, shape and "physical presence" of these two home espresso machines.

Note that this is an old (v1.0, sn#2) DE1 model, without the group head controller, in the photo, and that I still use.

-john

[>decentespresso]

Improving Heater Insulation


NEW-DE1-SMELL:

We've been working for several months on figuring out why brand new DE1 machines will give a smell, when warm, for the first few weeks of ownership.

We did eventually track it down to the organic "binder" (aka "glue") used to hold together the fiberglass fibers in our insulating sheets. After a few weeks, the smell goes away naturally.

That binder is made of starch, and it turns out that it slowly "toasts" when the heater is hot and touching the insulation.

After a lot of searching, we found someone making 3mm thick fiberglass with a no-smell binder. The blowtorch test above is more extreme than a 180ºC heater, but it demonstrates the point, and was done for us by our new insulation supplier. We tested it on monday, in a small closed office, with the heaters set to go to max heat, (until their thermostat safeties limit them), and we're now at no-smell.



BETTER ENERGY EFFICIENCY:

Our espresso-making heater is kept at 99ºC, while the steam heater is at 160ºC. The heaters are our-design, and are double insulated: first with fiberglass, then with a moulded insulator, that fits tightly and is cable-tied shut.

Our infrared camera shows us that there's not much heat leakage, except at the water in and out connection points. We use custom made all-metal connectors, not using the off-the-shelf plastic ones, as we prefer the longevity and no-plastic-in-the-water-path approach.

Those metal connectors, do radiate, though. We're now designing little insulating "socks" that we'll be putting around the three hotspots you can see in the photo.

As the Decent is off most of the day, and warms in 4.5 minutes, our energy usage is already massively lower than a typical machine, which has an uninsulated boiler. We've had customers report large $ reductions in their monthly electricity bill, after retiring their always-on boiler machines.

But there's always more that can be done, and happily, this project is nearing its conclusion.

The new heaters and insulating socks, should make their way into the October-scheduled v1.44 version. Once we have the insulating socks, they'll also be available to our existing customers who want to put them on their machines.

-john

[tompoland]

I applaud your commitment to ensuring that a Decent espresso machine need never be out of date. Apple could learn a lot from Decent but unfortunately their marketing department would veto the idea.

[>decentespresso]

Tomorrow (Saturday) Bugs and I are holding an event at Berkeley CoRo, California from 2:30-5.

I wanted a way to reach out to people who live nearby, to see if they might want to come.

I've spent a good part of this week implementing this feature, because it also enables some other things people have asked for:
- meeting other Decent owners who are near to you.
- - "I'd like to start a Local Decent User Group" is a very common request, that I want to help with.
- people who are Decent-curious, sometimes ask me if someone nearby would be willing to give them a demo of their machine
- and we occasionally have events, such as when I last (pre-COVID) went on a cafe tour.
- - I'm planning on doing a cafe tour of Germany and Switzerland, this summer, for instance.

Today, I emailed people who have bought a DE1 or accessories from me, who live within 100km of Berkeley. To build the database, I've used https://www.latlong.net/ and used people's shipping address. It's an inexpensive geolocation service, and fast (it's CSV based) but limited to "uploading 500 records by hand", which is a bit tedious. I've only so far done California, half the US, and Germany. Another 40 update files to go....

Any email you get from me on this, has a single click "opt out" and I'll never bother you again.

As with your postal address, this information is held with us, and not shared with anyone else. If someone wants to meet you, I'll be emailing you, and will only link you two up, if you say you want to.

Next, I'll need to think about how to have "mini forums" for "local Decent user's groups" to help nearly Decent people talk to each other.

And I mentioned above, none of this is required, you can opt out with a click. But Decent people tend to be a friendly bunch...

-john

[EspressoAdventurer]

Next, I'll need to think about how to have "mini forums" for "local Decent user's groups" to help nearly Decent people talk to each other.
And I mentioned above, none of this is required, you can opt out with a click. But Decent people tend to be a friendly bunch...
-john

Friendly! Well yes I'd agree with that John as being particularly true to, and in the case of those that are CS'ers ...
Well I s'pose its just that they're thoroughly Decent people!

[>decentespresso]

Decent Power Consumption

Decent customer Wim Leers reports on two years of having his Decent Espresso Machine, and logging its power consumption with his “Eve Energy” device.

He writes:

- ~130 kWh in ~2 years for 1704 shots, 1027 steam sessions, 131 hot water pours.
- Plus roughly 1.5 year of being “on” but idle.

At 2022 San Francisco Bay area prices of $0.31/kwH, that works out to $40.31 over two years, or about $20 per year.

He’s averaging 2.3 espressos per day (of which 1.4 of those are, on average, steamed milk drinks)

—
How does this compare to other machines?

Home Barista wrote an analysis:
https://www.home-barista.com/espress...6.html#p256022

Leaving a boiler on all day is expensive, so they assume two cycles per day:

“If you were so inclined to cycle it four times per day for two hours per cycle, allowing it to cool completely between each cycle, it would consume 1.8 kWh per day (0.45 *4).”

Over two years, this would be 1314 kWh or $407, or $203.50/year in electrical cost, in San Francisco. About 10x the DE1.

If you were to leave your boiler on 24/7, as manufacturers sometimes recommend (for machine longevity, because thermal cycling is bad for them), you would use 4x more electricity, at roughly $800/year.

—

I have not yet seen real world power consumption information about the new “green” boiler machines like the Prima One, which have much smaller boilers. If anyone owns one, and has been tracking real power usage with a device, I’d love to learn.

The main reasons for the DE1 using very little power are:

• low power idle mode, with 4.5 minute from-cold-to-ready time. AC power is physically cut off with a solenoid, during idle mode,
• heat on demand, only heats the water actually used in your drink, not a large (just in case you need it) amount of water that would be in a boiler.
• however, we still have improvements to make. I’m working on a firmware/app update that will turn off the USB charger when the tablet is over 60% charged, turning it back on when the battery drops to 40%. At the moment USB charging is always on. There will be other improvements we can make, as we’re planning on throwing some engineering time at this.

-john

[level3ninja]

• AC power is physically cut off with a solenoid, during idle mode,

Does the Decent use liquid AC electron juice?

[yochiya]

Yes, but only as part of the flux capacitor.

[>decentespresso]

Yesterday say my collaboration continued with tea importer Ali from Blue Willow Tea. https://bluewillowtea.com/

A day of tasting, profiling making, comparing with various gongfu preparations, yielded two new harvest teas that expressed themselves very well on the Decent.

I'll write more about this soon, and post recipes, but for whatever reason, some teas brewed on the Decent are just so-so, with traditional brewing techniques yielding better results. But others just "pop" and are amazing, brewing very well on the Decent. It's these "wow" teas that I write to you about.

The two teas that were great, and that I'll be posting profiles for, are both Winter 2021 harvests, just arrived in the past week. If you are interested in these, I recommend mail ordering them now, and by the time they arrive to you, I'll have the Decent profiles published.

Not that with the Decent, we were able to do much more complicated brewing approaches than what Blue Willow recommends on their website. What we're doing is more what a tea master would do, if you had them making your tea for you.

For example, with the Lunar Winter Green tea, we're doing 3 quick infusions of 20 seconds, 15 seconds, 15 seconds. With the Black Phoenix we're doing a first cup of 3 short 20 second infusions, that is very delicate, and then a second cup, 90 seconds later, with chocolate notes dominating. They're two very different, but both delicious, beverages from the same tea.

https://www.bluewillowtea.com/collec.../black-phoenix

BLACK PHOENIX

We are so pleased to share this new tea with you. Harvested in the winter on Phoenix Mountain, this black tea is made from Mi Lan Xiang Oolong cultivars. Winter harvested teas grow slower in the limited sunlight, soaking up more minerals from the soil as they grow and often developing sweeter notes. The resulting flavor is unique and intense. The warm leaf offers notes of baked plum pie and a hint of citrus peel. Even with short steeps the tea is full bodied and has a nourishing intensity that settles deep in your throat. When allowed to steep longer, the leaves emanate distinctive chocolate flavors that wash over your senses like velvet.

Process: OrganicHarvest: Winter, 2021
Origin: Guangdong, China

and

https://www.bluewillowtea.com/collec...r-winter-green

LUNAR WINTER GREEN

Plucked from the southernmost tea garden in Yunnan, just above the Vietnam border, this tea has a unique personality. It is harvested a few days before the Lunar New Year, towards the end of winter. The leaves have been dormant all winter long, soaking up nutrients in the soil as they rest. The air is dry and cold this time of year and the leaves pick up a notes of smoke in the air and a dewy sweetness.

When picked, the leaves exude flavors and aromas that range from savory charcoal-smoked veggies to sweet red bean paste. The long winter hibernation has harbored a stamina that will allow this tea to be steeped at least 10 times, each yielding vibrant new notes. The first few steeps offer warm hints of smoke and charcoal, and as each steep reaches deeper within the leaf, it accesses reserves of nectar. Each cup has a healthy amount of body and brings to mind steamed artichoke hearts and summer squash.

Harvest: 2022
Origin: Yunnan, China

[>decentespresso]

Beauty in the flaws

Our order of 500 wood handles made from reclaimed end-of-life Italian olive trees, is finished and my staff went to the maker to do their quality check.

Used to a world of industrial perfection, my staff rejected half the batch as imperfect.

Now, I've done some woodworking in my life, building electric guitars and helping build a renaissance lute.

As such, I'm a big fan of *character* in wood.

Signs of aging, struggle, natural forces; I love seeing that in the wood.

Thus, where my staff see flaws, I see beauty.

Look closely at that wood handles above. The one on the right has amazing swirls of dense color variation. There's so much drama in there. The left one looks almost like marble. As long as that natural crack doesn't weaken the wood or feel bad in the hand, I see no problem.

Not everyone might agree with me, of course.

What I'm thinking of doing, is photographing every single handle we get, and letting the buyer pick the exact one they wand. Because this is very old wood, each handle is very much unique, gnarled, defective, twisted, in its own particular way.

What do you think?

[tompoland]

Personally I like imperfections, to a point.

For example, my wife painted our massive outdoor table (seats 12 comfortably) in some sort of Hampton style white streaked paint stuff. It isn't perfect because it was done by a human and an amateur but the "flaws" remind me of her and her creativity and energy. I'd go so far as to see I prefer seeing the imperfections, I like them.

Your solution is great because of my "to a point" comment above: people can decide where that point is and select accordingly. That will tell you where most people think that point is and you may be able to create a profile of what is and is not acceptable for your supplier.

Your descriptions will help a lot e.g. "amazing swirls of dense color variation. there is so much drama in there". Heck with descriptions like that, you could sell the "flawed" ones for twice the price of the "perfect" ones :-)

[>decentespresso]

Workflow demo: my Weber Key Grinder, Decent DE1 & portafilter stand & funnel, making espresso

I filmed myself making an espresso this morning, to show my workflow with the Key and my Decent & accessories. I'm fairly happy with this now, as it's making consistent coffee and fairly quick to do. I'll be using this setup at the upcoming World of Coffee Trade Show, and we'll see how it goes there, in a high pressure situation.

I glued a magnet to my tablet stand, so that it auto-positions using the Key's magnet hidden under the wood. I'd like to try to make that less ugly, and ideally, offer that as an buyable option for any Key owners who want to try it. More news on that in the future.

-john

[StaticBlue]

A good review out on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsEe7drwCJI

[tompoland]

Thanks for the heads up. Top machine and a very well balanced review I thought.

[iamitman]

I also very interest in upgrading my Mara to Decent DE1. Any chance Decent might revamp anytime soon?

[tompoland]

In what way? Do you mean a new version perhaps? If so it may be helpful to know that Decent has made a commitment that all new features will be able to be added to previous models. You can buy now with the confidence that your machine need never be obsolete or lagging behind new models in terms of features.

[338]

John has been upfront about timing for next update 1.44 in October one page back https://coffeesnobs.com.au/forum/equ...340#post910340

[>decentespresso]

I also very interest in upgrading my Mara to Decent DE1. Any chance Decent might revamp anytime soon?

I posted and discussed v1.44 changes here:
https://www.home-barista.com/marketp...0.html#p858706
and
https://www.home-barista.com/marketp...0.html#p858919

there is a followup discussion there too. Happy to answer anything not answered there, here

[>decentespresso]

I've written before about the ecological cost of the pursuit for perfection in consumer goods. It really bothers me that so many companies discard function-but-imperfect goods.

So with Decent, any good that works-but-is-a-bit-ugly is discounted from 30% to 50% and sold on a dedicated page https://decentespresso.com/sale linked to on the top of our homepage.

I've long wanted to solve two issues with how we do this:

• we don't handle well, cases where only a small number of an discounted item remain
• we should provide precise photos showing you what the defect is.

We're now addressing both those things, by me "getting out of the way" and putting the power over our SALE page in my employee's (Celine is her name) hands.

• I wrote a kind of CMS (content management software) that allows her to:
• precisely indicate how many items were available on a precise stock-counting day
• deduct, in real time, how many items have been sold since that counted day, showing you real stock levels, at that very minute (yes, every page load performs fresh SQL database queries)
• Celine can upload detailed photos of each item, showing the issues with that batch
• this is also enabling us to sell a lot of the "miscellany" we have been stocking, but unable to efficiently/transparently sell to you.
• it also means that there's a lot more items on the SALE page, than there used to be when I (until a few weeks ago) hand-maintained the HTML.

I think of my job description as finding ways to "get the hell out of the way" and I'm happy with this little step.

-john

[>decentespresso]

Types of Olive wood handles

Of the 1000 handles we had made from reclaimed, end-of-live Italian olive trees, we've accepted about 600 of them, and the other 400 will be reworked.

And of those 600 sets (one of each size handle) my head-of-factory manager Nicole separated them into four categories that she made up:

• DENSE : dark to light color variations, these are our favorite
• DOTS : which are really small knots, also quite pretty
• BIRTHMARK : a dark splotch of color, but often the rest of the handle is like the DENSE ones
• NORMAL : even color all around

We have 1200 total handles, much too many to individually photograph, and it's too complicated to have video chats with people to let them pick them.

What to do?

One possibility is selling these as 4 separate grounds. The DENSE and DOTS are the most beautiful, but also the most rare. The NORMAL ones are the most plentiful.

My inclination is to sell the 4 different handles as 4 separate choices, but you don't get to pick exactly the specific one, just the "type". However, I don't want people disappointed and deciding to send the wood back, as that's time consuming and appalling un-ecological.

How would you recommend we "handle" <har har> this?

-john

[Lyrebird]

John

With my bike frames people get to contribute their preferences in hardwoods but the final decision on what goes where is always mine and mine alone.

Perhaps you could institute something similar: ask people for their preference ratings between the four categories on a sliding scale and design an algorithm that allocates the available handles according to the expressed preferences. Call it "Olea aleatorica (al Kwarizmi)"

On olive wood: a few years ago I was working at a winery in Turkey which was surrounded by olive groves. I was walking back to the winery from the local village eating an ice cream when I came across a tree that had been cut back heavily, presumably due to disease. I counted the number of growth rings per paddle pop stick and the number of paddle pop sticks from core to bark and thought "that tree was here when Mozart was alive"

[>decentespresso]

Thanks for the very helpful advice and reminiscence Lyrebird

[StaticBlue]

How would you recommend we "handle" <har har> this?

You could take a single photo of about 20 handles for each of the 4 groups, and state that while these particular handles are no longer available, this photo will give you a reasonable sample of the type of handle you will receive.

Also, please NOTE: Due to the nature of natural wood, they are sold in an "as is where is" condition - all sales are final, no returns or refunds will be accepted.

[338]

Static Blue, probably a bit harsh to sign away all your rights just for choosing wood! It would be quite reasonable to return due to say faulty threading into the handle (maybe due to an unseen internal fissure in the wood). Possibly fairer to both parties would be 'no returns or exchanges due to change of mind'.

I think your representative photo is a great idea.

[>decentespresso]

I think we're going to have a big photo of a bunch of representative handles, and we'll allow returns, but you pay the postage to return it to an address in your country.