Decent Espresso Machines (DE1) - Any thoughts?

[readeral]

Why the Counterculture one rather than the updated (2016) SCAA one?

[mjoyce]

Brilliant idea!
I can imagine having a "tasting / dialling-in" mode on the machine, it would bring up the wheel after the shot is poured and ask you to pick the flavours.
I would also love to combine this with the microphone and / or camera for recording details of what the coffee is - use the camera to scan the barcode on the bag of beans, for example.

Given the open nature of the system, this could even build a fantastic feedback loop for roasters. Imagine if a roaster with a subscription service got a feedback loop that showed how long it takes for beans they send out to get used, and what the customers think of the beans. This could even lead them to better tailor the subscriptions to customers' tastes.

[>decentespresso]

Why the Counterculture one rather than the updated (2016) SCAA one?

It's just my opinion, but I have previously found the SCAA wheel to be academic rather than practical. The Counter Culture one allows you to progressively narrow in on the flavor, and if you stop at any point, it's still useful. And too many things on the SCAA wheel have been unfamiliar terms to me.

That being said, when I do implement this feature, I'll do both, and let people choose what they want, because SCAA is obviously a potent force. And I'll let people make their own hierarchy and enter it in.

However, I now have to revise my opinion about the SCAA wheel. I've just now taken a look at the latest wheel, and it's much improved. Other than a few things like "Isovaleric Acid", I can now understand most everything on the new wheel. Kudos to them for improving it significantly.

[>decentespresso]

Given the open nature of the system, this could even build a fantastic feedback loop for roasters. Imagine if a roaster with a subscription service got a feedback loop that showed how long it takes for beans they send out to get used, and what the customers think of the beans. This could even lead them to better tailor the subscriptions to customers' tastes.

My hope is that if you keep your tasting notes, and info about the beans, that the software could crunch the numbers and help you narrow in on what parameters are most important for you to make your prefered shots with each bean.

[gc]

Will the bootloader on the tablet be unlocked as delivered? I'm thinking its unlikely to be delivered with Anroid O which should be more upgradeable and security focussed, so would appreciate the option to root/upgrade as I might require over time [i.e. my choice].

[>decentespresso]

Will the bootloader on the tablet be unlocked as delivered? I'm thinking its unlikely to be delivered with Anroid O which should be more upgradeable and security focussed, so would appreciate the option to root/upgrade as I might require over time [i.e. my choice].

I've rooted this tablet with Kingo Root, and indeed the ability to root the tablet was essential to me.

It'll be running Android 5.1, not because I can't get newer, but because Android 6.0 has been unstable on this (and other) tablet I have tested. I don't like the "unfortunately 'application xyz' has stopped" message, and this particular Android 5.1/tablet combination doesn't ever do that, whereas the newer tablet from this vendor does.

Also, the worst bluetooth problems I have ever had with this tablet could be solved by stopping/starting Bluetooth, whereas on other tablets I've had to reboot (not so bad) or manually stop/clear the two bluetooth services (not good).

I've been testing this tablet for about 2 years, and as it's the single biggest cheque we've had to write, we're going very, very conservative, and not using cutting edge tech. The tablet has to painlessly run my espresso software, without problems. If it does other stuff, great, but that's not my focus, and I'm not willing to get exciting-new-android-features in exchange for "potentially less reliable"

[gc]

I've rooted this tablet with Kingo Root, and indeed the ability to root the tablet was essential to me.

The tablet has to painlessly run my espresso software, without problems. If it does other stuff, great, but that's not my focus, and I'm not willing to get exciting-new-android-features in exchange for "potentially less reliable"

But that's the whole point. Of course from your point of view older, 'tried and true' hardware and software is the best way to go. [A good example of that approach - Look at the cludgy infotainment systems in even expensive cars vs any modern phone], but in the future, there might be a dev out there who gets all the drivers/kernel issues sorted and makes available an upgrade that also 'just works'. I'm sure it would be no biggy to at least have the bootloader unlocked on delivery. I certainly wouldn't be altering anything until warranty ran out.

[>decentespresso]

But that's the whole point. Of course from your point of view older, 'tried and true' hardware and software is the best way to go. [A good example of that approach - Look at the cludgy infotainment systems in even expensive cars vs any modern phone], but in the future, there might be a dev out there who gets all the drivers/kernel issues sorted and makes available an upgrade that also 'just works'. I'm sure it would be no biggy to at least have the bootloader unlocked on delivery. I certainly wouldn't be altering anything until warranty ran out.

I'm not really sure what an "unlocked bootloader" means, honestly. You can "adb" the tablet with a new OS. Can you enlighten, how I could tell?

That being said, I don't think you're ever going to upgrade this OS yourself, it would be far less painful and risky to buy a new Android tablet yourself. I tried hard to find a tablet that ran an open source variant of Android, but the Chinese really don't understand the desire for this, and so the price was USD$500+ for tablets that could do that. I've looked, and this being older hardware, and not Big Name Brand, no open source Android drivers exist for it.

[gc]

Two links to briefly explain the bootloader:

https://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/Bootloader

https://www.kingoapp.com/help/bootloader.htm

Need to ask your supplier if they will, or do, supply the tablet with unlocked bootloader - or a means to do so. I am still using 2012 tablets with the latest Android with all its benefits - running faster and with better battery life than original software thanks to some dedicated developers, who just may be keen coffee lovers and appreciate the opportunities of your great espresso machines running future OS's. But if the bootloader can't be unlocked, then that sort of development will never happen.

Remember, this is an internet enabled device with its cloud support and it will also last many years (decades we hope!), and like all IOT devices security is now becoming important, now and in the future. We don't want the home network compromised by an outdated system exposed to the world with outdated security. (Yes, I know, like millions of phone are now.)

[Downunder55]

I was fortunate to spend just little time with the DE1 and DE1+ the other day, when I visited Decent Espresso HQ when I was in Hong Kong last week


I must say first impressions say it all, Wow...... what a lovely looking machine !


It is more compact than I had imagined, even though previously I had looked at all the measurements, it is one tidy looking unit indeed, ideal for our apartment lifestyle that should easily get approval from the "higher being" who likes a clean uncluttered kitchen.


The outside casing feels solid, as does the new drip tray cover. Unfortunately the new group head cover was not on, but I would be happy with the current shape in either the black or silver, both have their merits in the looks department.


The polished front plate looks really great against the quality finish on the outside black casing.


The tablet interface is nice, crisp and responsive, or though there are a couple of pretty scary skins I wouldn't want to greet me with the first morning cuppa, but they are selectable.


Making an espresso is quite straight forward, just making a couple of selections on the tablet and after a little mechanical clicking the extraction starts. The steam output was nice and powerful making great silky milk in no time, a skill I am unfortunately still yet to master consistently.


One of the other "must have's" is a DE sprung tamper, it has such a lovely solid feel to it, and so beautifully made.


There is something quite exciting seeing a small development team in action producing something that is quite revolutionary, in plush offices they are not, but there is a real feeling of anticipation in the air that things are now so very close.


I left with a real sense of excitement and a realisation that there will be one of these little babies sitting in our kitchen before Christmas


Thank you Edison and John for taking some time out of your day at this busy time.

[>decentespresso]

Remember, this is an internet enabled device with its cloud support and it will also last many years (decades we hope!), and like all IOT devices security is now becoming important, now and in the future. We don't want the home network compromised by an outdated system exposed to the world with outdated security. (Yes, I know, like millions of phone are now.)

As I only have one sample at the moment of the tablet we're using, I haven't played with replacing the ROM, sideloading, or anything that could brick the tablet.

I wasn't able to determine if the bootloader is unlocked today, after about 2h of work (but I did discover "termux" a full linux command line stack for Android) that also installed "apt" (happy dance)

I have emailed my sales person to ask about the bootloader being unlocked, and we'll see if I can get an answer.

However, I did manage to reboot into "recovery mode" (power on with volume down button pressed) and engaged the "adb sideload" feature. Pictures below. Does that do anything for you?

This Android rev appears to be fairly popular, and there is a "terminus ROM" which might support it. Again, I'm not going to play with this now as I can't risk bricking my only development tablet. I think I'd prefer to leave this to Android hackers who Actually Know Something About Doing This.

https://forum.xda-developers.com/cro...-file-t3057865
https://gist.github.com/eyecatchup/dab5cf7977008e504213
Nexus 4 gets Android 5.1 Lollipop LMY47I update via Terminus ROM

[gc]

As I only have one sample at the moment of the tablet we're using, I haven't played with replacing the ROM, sideloading, or anything that could brick the tablet.

I wasn't able to determine if the bootloader is unlocked today, after about 2h of work (but I did discover "termux" a full linux command line stack for Android) that also installed "apt" (happy dance)

I have emailed my sales person to ask about the bootloader being unlocked, and we'll see if I can get an answer.

However, I did manage to reboot into "recovery mode" (power on with volume down button pressed) and engaged the "adb sideload" feature. Pictures below. Does that do anything for you?

This Android rev appears to be fairly popular, and there is a "terminus ROM" which might support it. Again, I'm not going to play with this now as I can't risk bricking my only development tablet. I think I'd prefer to leave this to Android hackers who Actually Know Something About Doing This.

https://forum.xda-developers.com/cro...-file-t3057865
https://gist.github.com/eyecatchup/dab5cf7977008e504213
Nexus 4 gets Android 5.1 Lollipop LMY47I update via Terminus ROM

[ATTACH=CONFIG]15985[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]15984[/ATTACH]

Very grateful and appreciate that you are checking the bootloader situation. I do hope that you can find a path to greater future security with this device. I know security is often not in the forefront of manufacturers minds, but these days it needs to be factored in from the beginning. The lack of an upgrade path has rendered even big name IOT home appliances at risk (eg TV's that last years and have never had an OS update, IP camera's, routers etc.). It doesn't expose the manufacturer, its their customers who are at risk. As an older spec device(?) (from your description), I am assuming that the manufacturer no longer provides OS support/updates (if they ever did), making aftermarket custom ROMS the only way to upgrade and ensure security in the future.

Sometimes its possible to sideload a ROM with the bootloader locked, but often it must have a correct digital signature unless unlocked. So an official OTA update would install, but not a customised ROM in that case. And of course, any apps should be installable in the system. As I don't know what the tablet you will supply is I can't check this out or what the version of Terminus ROM for this device is. (That ROM is adapted for a number of devices) Also, it seems to be only Android 5.1.1. Hmmm....

Glad you found Termux. I'm amazed that a skilled app developer like you with all your technical knowledge, didn't know about it [compared to me who couldn't program to save my life].

[>decentespresso]

As I don't know what the tablet you will supply is I can't check this out or what the version of Terminus ROM for this device is. (That ROM is adapted for a number of devices) Also, it seems to be only Android 5.1.1.

Our tablet identical to this one from Argos: Buy Alba 8 Inch 16GB Wi-Fi Tablet at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for Tablets, iPad, tablets and E-readers, Technology.

I've also been told that this tablet was codeveloped by the manufacturer and Archos, but I don't know exactly which Archos tablet this is. The sample I have is labelled "ALBA" which is Argos' own brand.

One of the reasons I chose it is because the OS install is much more stable anything I've used, other than my Nexus phone. And it comes with the Google-licensed full app stack. It looks like Argos (a large UK based store) made our vendor put a lot of work into this model, because none of the other Android tablets from this vendor had the same level of polish and stability.

Now that you know the exact model, maybe you will be able to find information about its security, bootloader status, etc... I quick search myself just now didn't turn up anything, but I'm generally clueless about Android hacking.

[gc]

Our tablet identical to this one from Argos: Buy Alba 8 Inch 16GB Wi-Fi Tablet at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for Tablets, iPad, tablets and E-readers, Technology.

I've also been told that this tablet was codeveloped by the manufacturer and Archos, but I don't know exactly which Archos tablet this is. The sample I have is labelled "ALBA" which is Argos' own brand.

Now that you know the exact model, maybe you will be able to find information about its security, bootloader status, etc... I quick search myself just now didn't turn up anything, but I'm generally clueless about Android hacking.

I had the same problem as you - Googling produced nothing useful and I was unable to determine which (if any) Archos model it could be. Didn't find anything useful on XDA-Developers either. So I guess we wait on your supplier to reveal all for us.

[>decentespresso]

I had the same problem as you - Googling produced nothing useful and I was unable to determine which (if any) Archos model it could be. Didn't find anything useful on XDA-Developers either. So I guess we wait on your supplier to reveal all for us.

Unfortunately, I got a clueless answer from the tablet manufacturer, as they don't understand the difference between rootable and unlocked bootloader. Sorry.

In China, the tablet manufacturing business is highly segmented, with separate companies specializing in ROMs, drivers and Android installs. The company we deal with assembles the tablets from components bought from specialized companies, flashes the ROMs, etc, but doesn't really know anything about the software in the tablet. That's also why they're able to seamlessly produce a dual boot Android/Windows variation on our tablet, which would be a horrendously complicated OS job for them.

In case you're curious, here are some photos of the tablet factory in Shenzhen, when Jeffrey went to visit them last week to discuss various technical details.