Decent Espresso Machines (DE1) - Any thoughts?

[>decentespresso]

Sold out

This just announced:

Our first manufacturing run of 300 espresso machines has now sold out.

We are not taking new orders for espresso machines until we start shipping.

Once shipping, we will take orders for our winter 2017 manufacturing run, delivering those machines in early spring.

[338]

Congratulations!

[gc]

What sort of corrosion resistance are you going to apply to those aluminium interior panels? Will they be powder coated or anodised? In that internal environment corrosion would have to be an issue - I know it is on my HX machine.

Glad I made it into the first 300.

[Erimus]

What sort of corrosion resistance are you going to apply to those aluminium interior panels? Will they be powder coated or anodised? In that internal environment corrosion would have to be an issue - I know it is on my HX machine.

Glad I made it into the first 300.

Looking forward to reading your adventures when the beast arrives

[>decentespresso]

What sort of corrosion resistance are you going to apply to those aluminium interior panels? Will they be powder coated or anodised? In that internal environment corrosion would have to be an issue - I know it is on my HX machine.

I wouldn't think that corrosion would be an issue because there is no water leakage planned inside the espresso machine. We have a moisture barrier between the electronics and the pump/heater area for safety reasons, but if there are leaks, that's bad and needs to be fixed. Plain old heat shouldn't cause corrosion.

I'd be interested to hear more about the corrosion you're seeing in your HX machine. Does your existing machine leak steam or water inside the chassis?

[gc]

I wouldn't think that corrosion would be an issue because there is no water leakage planned inside the espresso machine. We have a moisture barrier between the electronics and the pump/heater area for safety reasons, but if there are leaks, that's bad and needs to be fixed. Plain old heat shouldn't cause corrosion.

I'd be interested to hear more about the corrosion you're seeing in your HX machine. Does your existing machine leak steam or water inside the chassis?

I suspect the main source of moisture in my HX is the antivac on the boiler. As it heats up and pressure rises there is some minor sputter just before the antivac closes. Although the frame is treated steel in this case, I have had to clean and apply corrosion coatings at various places {I know, I'm fussy, but that's why I'm getting a DE1+ } But even on houses with aluminium windows and yes, even inside computers aluminium components can and do eventually oxidise. Powder coating is an excellent preventive in that case. There will always be moisture and heat around the DE1 espresso machine by the nature of the work - eg evaporation/splashing from the water tray in the base. The other area i see corrosion [I live in the wet tropics] is bimetallic corrosion between fasteners - screws bolts etc of steel and aluminium fittings. I usually avoid this by using non-conductive washers to (mostly) separate fasteners from aluminium substrate.

I do hope you will at least consider corrosion protection for the frame and discuss with your engineering guys at least. I appreciate your continuing willingness to engage with our concerns.

[>decentespresso]

Powder coating is an excellent preventive in that case. There will always be moisture and heat around the DE1 espresso machine by the nature of the work - eg evaporation/splashing from the water tray in the base. I do hope you will at least consider corrosion protection for the frame and discuss with your engineering guys at least. I appreciate your continuing willingness to engage with our concerns.

As it turns out, the case is powder coated on the inside and outside. Here's a photo with arrows showing this.

[gc]

As it turns out, the case is powder coated on the inside and outside. Here's a photo with arrows showing this.

Thanks for the response. I did already assume that the external case was powder coated [good ], but what caught my attention was the aluminium sheets on the inside of the production prototype photos above, that provided the structural frame, and also what you hang all your internal components off. If they were at least anodised, or or also powder coated this would greatly enhance the protection of the aluminium and therefore longevity of the machine.

[>decentespresso]

Thanks for the response. I did already assume that the external case was powder coated [good ], but what caught my attention was the aluminium sheets on the inside of the production prototype photos above, that provided the structural frame, and also what you hang all your internal components off. If they were at least anodised, or or also powder coated this would greatly enhance the protection of the aluminium and therefore longevity of the machine.

We're using food grade aluminium throughout the interior. If there is any corrosion, it's should only happen if we've been lied to by a supplier to about the grade of aluminium that was used.

Coating parts is a trade off and does affect electrical conductivity, which then has knock-on effects with safety compliance and grounding. It can also effect tolerances.

We recently looked at this (about two weeks ago) and decided to anodize the aluminium parts of the group head. They don't come into contact with the espresso during brewing, but they could get splashed, and thus corroded by acidic espresso, and anodising will help there.

For now, I don't see us anodizing the inside aluminium parts. I like to think we won't have problems due to lack of water leaks and using food grade aluminium, but we'll see. In this sort of engineering, though, there are rarely clear solutions to problems that don't cause other problems, there are usually tradeoffs.

I also don't want to change things that we've seen work for two years, and then only have 10 days of testing with them. Too risky.

[gc]

I understand, I just didn't want to be the one doing the r&d for you with my new DE1+ with a predictable problem. Hadn't thought of the electrical/grounding issues with powder coating or anodising, - it's a complex tradeoff. Thanks for considering my concern anyway.

[>decentespresso]

I understand, I just didn't want to be the one doing the r&d for you with my new DE1+ with a predictable problem. Hadn't thought of the electrical/grounding issues with powder coating or anodising, - it's a complex tradeoff. Thanks for considering my concern anyway.

We've had all aluminium brackets inside our DE1s for two years now, and a LOT of water leaks (hey, it's R&D), and never a sign of corrosion.

Of course, new problems will be uncovered when we go from having 9 machines in Hong Kong to 5000 machines all over the world, but given the aluminium grade we're using, I like to think corrosion won't be one of them.

[gc]

Let's hope!

[>decentespresso]

Video made by our shipping company

We use a company called "EasyShip" here in Hong Kong, as our broker to dozens of other courier services.

Below is a promotional video made by them, which came out today. I thought it might be interesting for you to see a bit of our operation as well.

No courier is best worldwide: for example, the less expensive couriers to Europe are more expensive to the USA, and vice versa. The difference can be just 20% or 2x more expensive.

We've written our e-commerce system (and shopping cart), logistics and tracking systems, and integrated them into EasyShip's system.

In case you're curious, here are three screen pictures showing our internal systems. As much as using off-the-shelf-software can save money, it generally creates a chaotic experience for customers, which is why I chose to write everything from scratch. This way, it would all be integrated, providing a single shopping/ordering/tracking/tech-support/repair/warranty system for customers.

[>decentespresso]

Weighed Grinding

We're almost finished developing our Decent Grinder https://decentespresso.com/pro_grinder where we take a good quality pro grinder made by someone else (a Chinese company owned by Mahlkonig) and modify it so that you can see the weight as you're grinding. It's a simple feature, but surprisingly useful, since consistent coffee ground dose weight is crucial to making good espresso. In this video, Jeffrey shows his latest idea, a slot for easily moving the scale (and portafilter stand) sideways so that the coffee grounds pour into the center of the portafilter. Front to back adjustment is made by loosening the screws on the feet of the grinder so that you can slide the entire scale stand forward and back.

This grinder is non-automatic. You turn the grinder on, and then off when the dose weight is what you want. The burrs are 64mm flat.

[LeroyC]

John I've been sifting through old posts for info on the Cafe model and can't quite find what I want to know. So could possibly answer these quick questions regarding that model? Would be much appreciated.

• Roughly when?
• Rough price? (Or price range/ceiling)
• Will it be plumbed water only?

Cheers,

Leroy