Decent Espresso Machines (DE1) - Any thoughts?

[gc]

One thing I liked about this tablet is that it (unusually for smaller manufacturers) is a Google licensee, with the full Google application set. This also seems to bring it regular security updates, despite still running Android 5.1.

Ah, now this is an *interesting* discovery...

The reason the tablet I choose was nice is because it was designed for Argos, a large electronics store in the UK. However, I just looked now, and the current tablet Argos sells (same model as ours) is now running Android 7.0 (though ours is 16gb RAM, not 8gb, as I paid a bit more to future proof it with more RAM).

Here's a link to that tablet:
Buy Alba 8 Inch 8GB Tablet - Purple at Argos.co.uk - Your Online Shop for Tablets, iPad, tablets and E-readers, Technology.

So, it looks like--with some research work--it should be possible to upgrade the DE1-included tablet to Android 7, and maybe to an open source variant.

Good discovery! Is it the same hardware/SOC as yours though, or an upgraded system with incompatible kernel? It would be at least worth a call to the tablet supplier to see if they would be willing/able to compile or source a ROM upgrade to 8.1., or even a project for one of your engineering interns.

[>decentespresso]

Good discovery! Is it the same hardware/SOC as yours though, or an upgraded system with incompatible kernel? It would be at least worth a call to the tablet supplier to see if they would be willing/able to compile or source a ROM upgrade to 8.1., or even a project for one of your engineering interns.

As of this past July 2018, Argos has been selling exactly the same tablet we bought. Our manufacturer in Shenzhen made it clear they were the same model, and the specs were identical.

From the web site now, the specs on the tablet have not changed.

At the very least, a simple experiment would be for us (or a customer in the UK) to buy that tablet from Argos and see if copying the image to our tablet works.

But, gc, to your point, at the moment our tablet supplier barely tolerates us, as we ordered the absolute minimum quantity (1000) that they permitted, and then we were extra annoying because I sent 3 employees to Shenzhen to quality check them all, and found the majority to not be satisfactory, and they redid them. ps: the problem was related to case fitting. They're not, at the moment, willing to do anything for us.

However, this summer we'll be hopefully ordering several thousand tablets from them, and I absolutely can ask them to upgrade us to the latest Android, and then share that OS upgrade with our existing customers.

ps: I did receive a Android v6.0 version of our tablets from our manufacturer, and found it to be less stable (background OS daemons would occasionally crash), and thus decided to stay with the older Android v5.1, because I hadn't found any problems with that build. Except for "security upgrades", I'm not sure there is an advantage to upgrading the Decent Tablet to a new OS (that's just my opinion). For the moment, we are receiving security updates on that tablet.

[gc]

Regarding upgrades to the ROM, I was addressing your concerns identified in the Ars article in terms of the developer issues with the need to be constantly updating the app for newer version API's and the fact that older versions of Android would drop off the bottom. Right now, I guess your app/ROM combo work just fine until you can't update it anymore. It was always the future that was the problem.

[>decentespresso]

Color-Coded Water Tubing



We use solid Teflon tubes to guide water around our espresso machine. There's not much space inside, so it's easy to lose track of which tube is which and plug the wrong thing into another.

That's why we're color coding all our water tubes. It'll be super easy to make sure everything is correctly connected. It'll also make it easier for anyone repairing our machines to understand what's going on. Our documentation will indicate these colors too.

Yesterday we received our precision cutting machine (top left) which uses a hot blade to slide through a reel of whatever-you-want. It's a neat tool: you can even set the temperature and the speed at which the blade moves.

These water tubes are made of shrink wrap tubing, which is usually used for electrical insulation. The colored tubes are 2x as large initially and shrink by half when heated to 125ºC.

Tomorrow and over the next few days, Miriam is going to color code all these tubes. Her main job is packing up our accessories orders. She's been getting much faster at it, so she usually has a few free hours each day, which she fills by quality-checking our stock (that's why we have a perpetual 30% sale going on for the not-quite-perfect stuff https://decentespresso.com/sale).

The potential for confusion is much greater with the temperature sensors. They all look alike, and there are 9 of them. We'll be using a mesh tube around those, and picking the final colors tomorrow.

We were waiting to order them because the mesh tube has to be cut with a hot knife, in order to seal the fibers. If you use scissors, the tube unwinds itself like an old knit scarf. It took a few hours of experimenting with our new auto-cutter to find the right blade temperature and speed.

[JMcCee]

Should I start making a space on the kitchen bench?

[>decentespresso]

Bluetooth module soldering: "tick"

Should I start making a space on the kitchen bench?

Soon!

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5 pm on a Friday, the guys decide to do some "easy on the brain" work and get the Bluetooth module soldering done. They did 120 of them in two hours, enough to get all the beta DE1 machines built. Ray and Kit, who started this week, did most of the work, but our EE intern Stanley helped out too.

For Bluetooth, we're using Red Bear Labs' module, because (a) it's already FCC certified and (b) it includes a CPU onboard that can be programmed using the Arduino tool "Codebender".

Yes, hacker-geeks, we have a separate CPU running inside our espresso machine, with a high-speed data connection, that you can send programs to. This gives you very-close-to-the-metal extensions power to our espresso machines, while still complying with UL/CE safety certification requirements. For documentation on uploading your own programs to this module this see Getting Started - BLE Shield

On the bottom left of the photo, you can see (peeking out over Ray's shoulder) several piles of colored lengths of shrink wrap tubing. Yellow, green, black, and red have been cut today. The cutting machine has been set up to work quite slowly, about 10 seconds per cut, so it's very accurate and the cuts are very clean.

On Monday we'll put the tube colors on, and then someone can work on inserting the water tubes correctly into the mixing chamber. We call it "The Octopus" because it has so many things plugging into it.

[bigdaddy]

Hi John,

I suppose it goes without saying but I'm going to say it anyway...Very very impressive... Hopefully your $2 million plus investment gives you very good returns in the near future... I'm glad you have come this far....Maybe I'm out of context and before time but could you post a few videos on the DE1+ pouring it's espressos "Slayer style" please? I would like to compare those pours and end results visible in the cup with the pours Slayer show on their videos. Even if you show a couple or a few people including yourself if you want, sipping it and telling us what they can taste (like the Slayer people do). I'm particularly interested in how they physically compare. Then after that, maybe expand the videos out to different variations of espresso shots?

Don't get me wrong...I love the techy stuff and I love the in depth detail you have shown us everything as you go along this journey but...I do like to see things in "real life" with the " more human component" (maybe wrong wording and no offence intended whatsoever) to it as well, if you understand what I mean.

Cheers.

[>decentespresso]

Maybe I'm out of context and before time but could you post a few videos on the DE1+ pouring it's espressos "Slayer style" please? I would like to compare those pours and end results visible in the cup with the pours Slayer show on their videos. Even if you show a couple or a few people including yourself if you want, sipping it and telling us what they can taste (like the Slayer people do). I'm particularly interested in how they physically compare. Then after that, maybe expand the videos out to different variations of espresso shots?

I'm happy to do that in the future, but not now, because my time is already quite committed running engineering and social media, and programming the tablet.

I don't lay claim to being a God of Coffee, which is why I try to surround myself with people who are. I really know absolutely nothing about Slayer, have never used their machines and I've only had a handful of "Slayer shots" in my life. I would prefer to leave comparing what we do with a Slayer shot to others who are actually competent to do so.

In principle, the task of making a Decent shot look, feel and taste like a Slayer shot should be possible, but it's best accomplished by someone who has a lot of experience making excellent Slayer shots. In other words, a good barista at a shop using a Slayer is the right person to do what you ask.

About a third of the 300 Decent machines so-far-ordered are going to cafes. I hope some of them post their experiences, comparing what they do on a Decent to what they on Synesso, Linea, Black Eagle, etc...

[>decentespresso]

Mac OSX version of the DE1+ Tablet App (beta)



Here is a download link to the DE1+ software, that you can run on your Mac OSX computer.
https://decentespresso.com/download/...sx/DE1PLUS.zip

I'm crossing my fingers that this works for you.

Some notes:

- you can run the DE1+ app directly from your Download directory. There is no installer and you don't need to move it to /Applications.

- Since there's no installer, you can simply Trash the app when you're done.

- Because I'm not "Apple authorized" the app will complain and not be allowed run the first time you click it. You'll need to go to "System Preferences / Security & Privacy" after that warning, and click the "open anyway" button. If this makes you nervous, better to not run the app. :-D Note that the app does not require root rights and thus will not ask for your password.

- the app's screen resolution is 1280x800, slightly too large for the small screen MacBook Air model, but fine for most every other Mac.

- a fake espresso machine connects to the app. The simulated pressure/flow/temperature numbers are intentionally not very realistic. I didn't try to simulate an actual coffee puck.

- About 20 languages and 15 skins are included. You can switch between languages in the Settings/Other page. The Translation is NOT up to date. I will release a BETA v2 next week that has up-to-date translations.

- I will also be working on a Windows version.

- Assuming the app works, I will keep it up to date, so that people can get a feel for what it's like to use the DE1+.

- Is there any interest in a Linux x32/x64 version, or Linux/Wayland (x86_64, Debian 9.0), of this?

-john

[TampIt]

Here is a download link to the DE1+ software, that you can run on your Mac OSX computer.
https://decentespresso.com/download/...sx/DE1PLUS.zip

I'm crossing my fingers that this works for you.

- I will also be working on a Windows version.

- Assuming the app works, I will keep it up to date, so that people can get a feel for what it's like to use the DE1+.

- Is there any interest in a Linux x32/x64 version, or Linux/Wayland (x86_64, Debian 9.0), of this?

-john

"Linux x32/x64 version, or Linux/Wayland": Yep, if it is not too much hassle. Virtual machines can run almost anything these days, so I would not put too much effort / resources into it.

FYI, this is being posted from my last windows machine and it will be retired by the end of this week. My new one is running BSD Unix plus a whole mob of virtual machines for Mac / Win / DOS (power station software has a 30+ year life - techheads please note that compatibility over time is actually needed) / linux software that will not "play nice" natively. My other two machines are running Slackware 64 (linux).

Also, take your time on the software: I would rather you sort out the DE1 power system first. Unfortunately the DE1"x" is off my list until it can froth milk and do a pour at the same time. Ending in mid 2000's, I lived with dual machines for over ten years due to that limitation and really do not want a repeat in my current micro kitchen - not that a second machine could fit anyway.

Congrats on the "near shipping status", I look forward to my own DE1 when it is ready to play both tunes well.

[gc]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]17949[/ATTACH]
- I will also be working on a Windows version.

- Assuming the app works, I will keep it up to date, so that people can get a feel for what it's like to use the DE1+.

- Is there any interest in a Linux x32/x64 version, or Linux/Wayland (x86_64, Debian 9.0), of this?

-john

Plus one for the Linux 64 bit version [I use Linux Mint 64 bit]. But I also run various VM's - although no OSX - so Windows compile would be fine too. Many thanks John for doing this.

Have all the parts for machines arrived yet? From your earlier comments, I am calculating about 3 months for CE certification after you can fully asemble machines. So far I'm thinking April for delivery of CE certified to Aust. Any updates?

[>decentespresso]

Have all the parts for machines arrived yet? From your earlier comments, I am calculating about 3 months for CE certification after you can fully asemble machines. So far I'm thinking April for delivery of CE certified to Aust. Any updates?

We're still waiting for the chassis and the PCBs and premade wiring. I'll be posting news here on each sub-assembly as we get started on it. We should get started on the heater assemblies in a day or two, and they're a LOT of work, about 1h of labor per machine, and that's once the person gets up to speed.

We've found a company that will make the complete heater assemblies for us, but there's a 4 month lead time on that, so it's planned for this summer's big batch of machines (1000 to 3000, depending on demand). That heater company also makes heaters for two famous Seattle-based espresso machine companies <cough, cough> so we think they're a good choice.

To summarize: we're not waiting for everything to arrive; we have plenty to keep us busy and we're moving DE1 assembly forward now.

"Linux x32/x64 version, or Linux/Wayland": Yep, if it is not too much hassle.

I think what I might do for the Linux folk is simply provide a .tar.gz of the source files, and let you download the relevant "undroidwish" app to run it for your OS.

Alternatively, an install of Tcl/Tk will also run the DE1+ gui. Linux people aren't generally too frightened to "use the source" and probably prefer that to trusting a binary blob to work.

I would rather you sort out the DE1 power system first. Unfortunately the DE1"x" is off my list until it can froth milk and do a pour at the same time. Ending in mid 2000's, I lived with dual machines for over ten years due to that limitation and really do not want a repeat in my current micro kitchen - not that a second machine could fit anyway.

I don't have good news for you there. Our planned strategy of having two plugs into the DE1 was recently nixed by Intertek as a CE violation.

If we were to tube up a DE1PRO+ to give steam during espresso, then varying power demands would mean that steam power would fluctuate based on what else you were doing (ie, espresso making would drop steam power). Not good. For the DE1CAFE version, our plan is to offer a separate, thin profile Steam module that has its own plug. Intertek has no problem with that.

The other alternative is to offer steam during brew, but (a) only for 220V and (b) to have the steam be at half-power all the time, so that espresso-making doesn't change the steam power. Not great either.

I hope you don't mind me honestly delivering bad news. I don't see other engineering solutions, other than the one we're taking with the DE1CAFE, which is "doing a modbar" and separating the two functions into two boxes.

From an Industrial Design perspective, it might be possible for us bolt the steam module to the side of the DE1, in the future, and thus have steam during brew, but have it still pass CE rules. "one plug per enclosure" is apparently what we need to abide by.

-john

[gc]

Thanks for the info and the update

[TampIt]

I don't have good news for you there. Our planned strategy of having two plugs into the DE1 was recently nixed by Intertek as a CE violation.

If we were to tube up a DE1PRO+ to give steam during espresso, then varying power demands would mean that steam power would fluctuate based on what else you were doing (ie, espresso making would drop steam power). Not good. For the DE1CAFE version, our plan is to offer a separate, think profile Steam module that has its own plug. Intertek has no problem with that.

The other alternative is to offer steam during brew, but (a) only for 220V and (b) to have the steam be at half-power all the time, so that espresso-making doesn't change the steam power. Not great either.

I hope you don't mind me honestly delivering bad news. I don't see other engineering solutions, other than the one we're taking with the DE1CAFE, which is "doing a modbar" and separating the two functions into two boxes.

From an Industrial Design perspective, it might be possible for us bolt the steam module to the side of the DE1, in the future, and thus have steam during brew, but have it still pass CE rules. "one plug per enclosure" is apparently what we need to abide by.

-john

G'day John

Thanks for the update - I prefer honesty to "fake news".

Any (vague) idea when the 220V DE1CAFE will be available?

TampIt

[>decentespresso]

Thanks for the update - I prefer honesty to "fake news" Any (vague) idea when the 220V DE1CAFE will be available?

I'm hoping April, but really pressing to have a Beta machine done earlier, because ...

I really want to exhibit at MICE, but will only do so if:
1) people are liking the DE1/DE1+ machines (ie, good reviews so far)
2) the machines are shipping daily
3) we have a professional model (DE1CAFE) that we can show at MICE and take orders for. Otherwise, we're just "marketing", and enough already.

-john