further testing, the level control portion of board after about 2 seconds energies u14 opto which relays the the rest of the board a trigger that makes the red LED begin to flash,
group2 is working completely however group 1 doesnt allow programming mode to work,
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Got another one. Azkoyen Vienna.
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confimed that the green neon on the splashback besides the pressure gauge is the level indicator, regardless of the probe open or shorted i cant get it to animate. the probe goes to a corner of the control board which is pretty well insulated from the rest of the board with only power supply coming from the transformer and 2 opto isolating relaying status to the rest of the control board, will have to bench test the board. the curcuitry in the level corner is effectively just some op amp chips and some resistors.
have also been able to program one of the 2 group shot controls via the program button. will have to determine why group one isnt playing the game.
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ok, so big bump here, just wondering if anyone can clarify a couple of thought bubbles i have re a bravo i have picked up.
its an electronic model, with control board AK85503000
http://www.grimac.fr/lang-en/electro...compact-a.html
mechanically machine is sound, but its level control function doesnt appear to be working correctly,
-the bravo and viena appear to be functionally the same?
machine on power up nothing happens but after a couple of seconds red LED on control board begins flashing, i believe this is to do with the fill control ot functioning.
the green LED on lower part next to power/element rotary switch goes solid green, i beleive this part is OK as in another post i read this can flash?
the green NEON indicator on the splash-back occasionally flashed but doesn't stay up, in the absence of any documentation i assume this is to do with boiler level indication?
the pump works and the buttons that relate to the shot functions work and it delivers the water through the 3 way valve and group head.
the supply to the boiler fill solenoid has 20VAC (yes 20 not 220) on it but, i assume the controller is attempting to drive this solenoid but i have a feeling there is either a fault on the output part of the control board or it isnt seeing the signal from the fill sensor telling it it is either opperating level or not, this i s where i beleive the green neon indicator is related to the fill function with the absence of a sight glass?
from the manual,
i assume this relates the the green LED by the switch?3.2.5. Error messages indicated by the led diode
The machines in the E and C range will flash the led diode on the machine when the water
pump is functioning for more than 30 seconds and the circuit board does not receive a signal
from the water level probe in the boiler to say it is full.
any confirmation of the operating principles would be greatly appreciated.
cheers/
Last edited by koshari; 3 April 2021, 10:34 AM.
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Ok Thanks for the reply Noidle22.... I'll take some photos and hopefully I've got enough posts now to upload them!!!!
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Not sure about that model. If you can't see the potentiometer on the board than chances are it doesn't have one.Originally posted by snl686 View PostHi Noidle22
Finally have my machine set up in the kitchen so starting to play with it more often now.. I can't for the life of me find the tiny adjustable resisitor you are referring to. Mine is the model that includes a programmable digital display panel that has the time (Can be set to turn on/off autmatically) etc in it and in reading a manual for the Bravo model that is similar there seems to be a temperature setting in the Engineering Menu but can't seem to get into that menu - anyone have an idea??
Does the machine have a pressurestat? If so then that is your adjustment. I can't remember what the Bravo has, think I've only worked on one before and that was years ago. If you are unsure, take a photo of the complete machine internals and post it up here.
If there's no luck, we'll see if MorganGT can offer advice or maybe send him a message.
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Hi Noidle22
Finally have my machine set up in the kitchen so starting to play with it more often now.. I can't for the life of me find the tiny adjustable resisitor you are referring to. Mine is the model that includes a programmable digital display panel that has the time (Can be set to turn on/off autmatically) etc in it and in reading a manual for the Bravo model that is similar there seems to be a temperature setting in the Engineering Menu but can't seem to get into that menu - anyone have an idea??
Originally posted by noidle22 View PostThey're not bad machines, I'm not a fan of the design and the plastics seem to be quite brittle from my experience. Spares are readily available but if it's got electrical problems that extend to the circuit boards or touchpads you might be in for a rough time.
The boiler pressure is controlled via SSR's and a pressure transducer or temperature sensor, not sure which, rather than a conventional pressurestat. The boiler pressure adjustment is on the circuit board under the drip tray, it's a tiny adjustable resistor.
Caught me out the first time as I just expected it to have a pressurestat.
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Following a PM snl686 kindly sent me a copy of these docs and was happy for me to put copies in the Documentation section - many thanks!Originally posted by snl686 View PostHi SPH
I have one of these that I have slowly been furbishing over the last few months but got held up tracking down and ordering a new element since mine was shot..
I have managed to get hold of a programming and technical manual for the Bravo which is pretty similar and I believe the model before the Vienna so if you want a copy let me know..
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I managed to take a couple of photos of our 3 group Vienna restoration project.
This one shows the main control switch with the missing terminal labels which we are desperate to get more info on -
Working from the connection diagram on p22 of the Set Up manual, which I have posted in the Documentation section, we are hoping to restore it to the correct single phase configuration from the rather dodgy setup we found when we started. The control switch is a Bremas series A 1600 rotary cam switch but there does not seem to be any info available for it online and having no terminal labels left on it does not help. I have spent several hours figuring out the switching sequence and used some 12v lamps and a battery (out of sight on the 3 pairs of wires in the photo) to simulate the 3 heating elements.
I also plan to thoroughly check all of the heating element circuit to make sure it is correct.
Next are a couple of photos of the front & back views of the internals-
Still a long way to go but we're enjoying the journey!
PS Apologies to SPH for jumping in on his thread but the information we have found here has been most helpful and would love to see more photos.
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Also waiting with baited breath for any tech info on the Vienna (or Bravo). It's good to see that there are a few others working on these machines.I have one of these that I have slowly been furbishing over the last few months but got held up tracking down and ordering a new element since mine was shot..
I have managed to get hold of a programming and technical manual for the Bravo which is pretty similar and I believe the model before the Vienna so if you want a copy let me know..
It's beginning to look as though Service Manuals for these are non-existent.
I would really appreciate a photo or details of the terminal labeling on the 4 position main switch if anyone can please supply.
Also noted MorganGT's comment above on the SSRs and will be sure to test these before 'firing up' ours.
Trev
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Hi, l have a Bravo which I am trying to fix up. This is not only my first post here but also my first machine (other than stovetop). I'd love a copy of the manual, all my knowledge so far comes from reading the numerous and helpful posts here. I've pulled one good shot and several substandard shots but have now dismantled the machine to try to refurbish to an electrically safe and generally roadworthy standard.Originally posted by snl686 View PostHi SPH
I have one of these that I have slowly been furbishing over the last few months but got held up tracking down and ordering a new element since mine was shot..
I have managed to get hold of a programming and technical manual for the Bravo which is pretty similar and I believe the model before the Vienna so if you want a copy let me know..
The touch-pad controls were inconsistent, button function changed between shots! Fortunately my multimeter showed one touch pad to be unservicable but the other is fine- so I know which pins go to which button and which lead is common. I am replacing u/s one with push buttons so hopefully that fixes the problem, rather than suggesting a computer problem.
Next problems: the pump sometimes makes a bad noise and trips the household circuit-breaker, and the plastic panels are broken (difficult to fix). I have the exploded parts diagram, but the manual would save a lot of time working out if the programming works. I want to confirm that before investing in sorting other problems.
If I can get it to a publicly acceptable standard it will bu used for it's intended gifted purpose at a community coffee morning, if only to a privately useable standard I'll keep it for home use. Fabricating replacement panels is daunting, but gaffa taped plastic over 240v is not safe enough for public use, so it looks like good coffee at home for a while at least!
Thanks in anticipation
Monsoonbarra.
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Make another couple of posts and then post up the manuals here: Documentation - Extreme Machines That way anybody who has a need will have ready access to them.
Ah Ok I'll think up something worthy to add to the discussions and get posting... - How many do I need before I can post documents and also upload photos?
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Make another couple of posts and then post up the manuals here: Documentation - Extreme Machines That way anybody who has a need will have ready access to them.
Java "Share the data!" phile
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Hi SPH
I have one of these that I have slowly been furbishing over the last few months but got held up tracking down and ordering a new element since mine was shot..
I have managed to get hold of a programming and technical manual for the Bravo which is pretty similar and I believe the model before the Vienna so if you want a copy let me know..
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I think I may have jinxed myself mentioning this problem - turns out my very first job tomorrow morning at 6 am is a Vienna with what sounds like exactly this problem. Going to have to drag myself out of bed an hour or so earlier than usual, despite still having the flu that's knocked me flat all long weekend (not helped by a breakdown callout fist thing this morning). Pity the Gloria Jeans it is at hasn't yet upgraded to a La Marzocco GB5 like most other stores!Originally posted by MorganGT View PostIf it genuinely has an electrical fault but everything appears to be working and you haven't tested the third leg of the element, my guess for the most likely possibility is the last leg is either not heating, or continues to heat after the machine gets up to the set pressure. Sometimes the Solid State Relays fail in a 'permanently on' state, so while 2 legs shut off, the dodgy one keeps heating so that the machine slowly overpressurises. It's about the only electrical fault I can think of with a Vienna that won't show up if all but one leg is switched on.
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Got another one. Azkoyen Vienna.
Yep, that sounds like a plan. I'll check the scale situation tomorrow. Sounds like the one you worked on was in much worse shape than this one.
So far I'm pretty happy with this one. My BOEMA cost $40 and then needed $400 worth of parts. $200 of that was just for portafilters. The irony is that the shop I installed it in had a pair of old ones in a box out the back. Then there was the element that I killed during the descaling. If I added my time to the bill it wouldn't have been even remotely worth it.
This one cost $100, came with a double filter and doesn't look to need much else.
I still reckon there's a gremlin hiding in there somewhere.
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