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Alex Duetto IV - First impressions

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  • #31
    It's just me but I always opt for better engineering and build quality when it's a close call with everything else...

    Would be the Duetto for me.

    Mal.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Dimal View Post
      It's just me but I always opt for better engineering and build quality when it's a close call with everything else...

      Would be the Duetto for me.

      Mal.
      Hi Mal - thanks for the feedback.
      Can you clarify which areas of design/construction are superior in the Alex not mentioned in my post?

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      • #33
        Hi warmtone,

        I have owned my Duetto for eight and a half years now without any problems.

        My previous machine (not going to mention make, it was a dual boiler, great brand) had a powder coated frame, which was starting to get some rust after eighteen months!
        My Duetto has no signs of any corrosion and keeps pumping out great shots with a tonne of steam when I need it.

        I think I will still have my Duetto for at least another eight and a half years!

        Either machine will help you produce great shots.

        Just my recommendation as an owner of several machines and a very happy current Duetto owner!

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        • #34
          Hi Topshot I am upgrading my VBM Domobar which still looks like new after 7 years.
          It is also all stainless steel construction which means it will last indefinitely.

          Powder coating to me seems a step backwards and a compromise as confirmed in your post.

          At $4K plus retail the ECM should be better - the powder coated chassis while hidden is an area of cost cutting.
          But in all other respects I maintain the Synchro is a fine machine and is well regarded on this Forum.

          I guess it comes down to which compromises are easiest to live with.
          I am starting to agree the Alex offers superior functional design and construction.
          Last edited by warmtone; 30 June 2018, 07:50 PM.

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          • #35
            Either machine will be a great decision, teamed up with a great grinder and you'll be in coffee heaven!

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            • #36
              If done correctly, the powedercoating should not be an issue with longevity. My previous machine Bezera Domus Galatea II had a powdercoated frame and it looked extremely well made and finished. I could not forsee it getting corroded anytime soon. It was built like a tank, with the front panel being super stiff with no group flex. My current machine Alex Duetto II is all stainless, but the group flexes a bit, i probably would not have noticed if I did not have the A/B comparison. Both are fantastic machine that look and feel that they are built to last.

              Best way is to go and have a play with both and see which one ticks the most of your boxes, its often the small details that can sway your decision.

              Cheers

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              • #37
                All things being equal, I'd choose the Stainless Steel frame over powder-coating any day. Had both a Rancilio and now a Vibiemme with rust in their powder-coated frames. I can sort of understand the need for this in cheaper machines to keep costs down but on a $4000 - $4500 machine?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by CafeLotta View Post
                  All things being equal, I'd choose the Stainless Steel frame over powder-coating any day. Had both a Rancilio and now a Vibiemme with rust in their powder-coated frames. I can sort of understand the need for this in cheaper machines to keep costs down but on a $4000 - $4500 machine?
                  This is what convinces me that an all stainless steel frame is the only way to go for a high end investment.
                  Izzo don’t cut corners in either the Duetto or Alex Leva from what I have seen.
                  Clearly other manufacturers do - because stainless steel is expensive and reduces profit margins.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by warmtone View Post
                    This is what convinces me that an all stainless steel frame is the only way to go for a high end investment.
                    Izzo don’t cut corners in either the Duetto or Alex Leva from what I have seen.
                    Clearly other manufacturers do - because stainless steel is expensive and reduces profit margins.
                    Whenever I look at the Izzo Alex Duetto IV online I find myself looking over my shoulder to check that no-one's watching. Coffee Machine porn at its best. Apologies to anyone that's offended by this. But seriously, try it. Dressed in the standard Black handles its great but I find the White ones very appealing. I'd better stop now.


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                    Last edited by CafeLotta; 1 July 2018, 02:21 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by CafeLotta View Post
                      Whenever I look at the Izzo Alex Duetto IV online I find myself looking over my shoulder to check that no-one's watching. Coffee Machine porn at its best. Apologies to anyone that's offended by this. But seriously, try it. Dressed in the standard Black handles its great but I find the White ones very appealing. I'd better stop now.
                      That wasn’t creepy at all...

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by warmtone View Post
                        Both are great machines and I’m just about to toss a coin - but happy to receive feedback in case I missed something.
                        Not sure if its been mentioned previously but water pumped into the Izzo Alex Duetto IV Brew boiler is preheated via a heat exchanger in the Steam Boiler. This means that there's no cooling at all by cold water entering the Brew boiler.

                        See Diagram below - (sourced from https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/I...er-look-v1.pdf)

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                        The ECM Synchronika, like most Dual boilers, fills the Brew boiler with cold water direct from the reservoir or the mains supply. A minor influence on heated water in the Brew boiler while pulling a shot but pre-heated water removes this effect altogether. Comes into its own when doing multiple quick shots with some flushing thrown in also.
                        Last edited by CafeLotta; 12 July 2018, 07:25 PM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by CafeLotta View Post
                          Not sure if its been mentioned previously but water pumped into the Izzo Alex Duetto IV Brew boiler is preheated via a heat exchanger in the Steam Boiler.

                          See Diagram
                          Slightly OT question: my interpretation of the diagram posted says that it draws the water for the hot water wand directly from the steam boiler rather than through the heat exchanger mentioned. Do you know if that is the case?

                          It always seems to me that these machines are designed by people who don't drink tea (or who know not to use the hot water wand for tea)

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Lyrebird View Post
                            Slightly OT question: my interpretation of the diagram posted says that it draws the water for the hot water wand directly from the steam boiler rather than through the heat exchanger mentioned. Do you know if that is the case?
                            Correct, hot water is via the steam boiler. According to the full review (link below), the heat exchanger is specifically designed for this machine to pre-heat water fed to the brew boiler for a higher degree of brew water temp accuracy/stability. Refer Review Page 16 "Hot Water".

                            The steam boiler can be switched off and the machine run just with the brew boiler for espresso. It would then operate as most dual boilers do without pre-heating. I don't see the point though of owning a machine like this and not utilizing all its design features.

                            Full review Izzo Alex Duetto IV - https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/I...er-look-v1.pdf

                            The "plus" version has some additional features - https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/I...ual-Boiler.pdf

                            Originally posted by Lyrebird View Post
                            It always seems to me that these machines are designed by people who don't drink tea (or who know not to use the hot water wand for tea)
                            Personally, I use an adjustable temp control kettle for tea. Green tea especially requires lower temp than coffee brew water temp. Its generally suggested that you let fresh water boil then cool to correct brewing temp. The temp read-out on my kettle is ideal for this. For teabags (God forbid!), I pour boiled water into cups to cool (and preheat cups) with a coffee thermometer in one cup. When the right temp is reached, drop in the teabags and brew. Takes out the bitterness similar to lowering temp on coffee brewing to adjust for bitterness.

                            https://www.schooloftea.org/module/h...up-of-tea.html

                            https://www.lipton.com/us/en/cult-of...green-tea.html
                            Last edited by CafeLotta; 13 July 2018, 11:53 AM.

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                            • #44
                              Thanks for the reply and clarification.

                              Originally posted by CafeLotta View Post
                              Personally, I use an adjustable temp control kettle for tea. Green tea especially requires lower temp than coffee brew water temp.
                              I agree wholeheartedly and would add that some black teas also benefit greatly from lower temps: I drink mostly 2nd flush single garden Darjeeling teas and brew them at about 90 oC. I just mix hot and cold water to achieve the temperature I want.
                              Last edited by Lyrebird; 13 July 2018, 12:18 PM.

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                              • #45
                                What's the warm up time on this? Looking at it or the Leva.

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