Alex Duetto IV - First impressions

[Casa Espresso]

Alex Duetto upgrades

Nice little standard upgrades on all our Alex Duettos and EVOS arriving in Australia from July this year

Fitted from the factory in Italy IMS shower screens and baskets and a naked E61 group handle.

Also today from our mate at Specht Design these custom made oak or walnut wood kits.

Beautifully finished and designed

Cheers

Antony
www.casaespresso.com.au

[CafeLotta]

A previous CS discussion on SS v Copper boilers which may be of interest -

https://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-e...ess-steel.html

[ozscott]

Yes, we requested specific features for Australia.

Here is the link to the current and correct specifications for the machine we import for Australia

https://www.casaespresso.com.au/izzo...o-iv-plus.html

Cheers

Antony
www.casaespresso.com.au

Hi Anthony,

Why was SS specified, over copper for the boilers?

Cheers

[Casa Espresso]

The non-insulated brew boiler version I saw photos of had copper boilers rather than Stainless Steel. Different countries different versions?

Yes, we requested specific features for Australia.

Here is the link to the current and correct specifications for the machine we import for Australia

https://www.casaespresso.com.au/izzo...o-iv-plus.html

Cheers

Antony
www.casaespresso.com.au

[CafeLotta]

Both the Boilers are insulated on the Duetto

Here is a happy snap of the inside of our demo.

Cheers

Antony
Www.casaespresso.com.au

The non-insulated brew boiler version I saw photos of had copper boilers rather than Stainless Steel. Different countries different versions?

[CafeLotta]

Fitted with a decent enough PID Controller that's been properly setup and tuned, it doesn't really matter what you do with the Boiler...

I suppose that's the key to it Mal. A properly designed system would take into account all variables including the quality of the PID controller and inherent error margins of it as well the temp sensor. You're in a better position to comment on the differences between a commercial/industrial unit v domestic coffee machine unit.

[Casa Espresso]

Both the Boilers are insulated on the Duetto

Here is a happy snap of the inside of our demo.

Cheers

Antony
Www.casaespresso.com.au

[Caffeinator]

It seems like a lot of thought has gone into the design of the Duetto IV. The pre-heated water refilling the brew boiler as well as the uninsulated brew boiler (easy and cheap enough to add insulation if they thought it neccessary) seems to indicate they did a lot of testing before settling on this design. I'm happy to assume for this machine they found the right balance.

The brew boiler is insulated.

[Dimal]

There's a line of thought that brew boilers with PID shouldn't be insulated so that any temp overshoot corrects itself more quickly due to boiler heat loss. This gets it back under PID heating control sooner, keeping it tightly in the desired brew temp "zone".

That's actually a bit of a furphy...
Fitted with a decent enough PID Controller that's been properly setup and tuned, it doesn't really matter what you do with the Boiler...
40+ years of knowledge and experience gained designing and maintaining a wide range of process control situations.

Mal.

[CafeLotta]

That shouldn't be necessary if the PID is well tuned. If it happens the first thing to do is to turn the "I" parameter down.

It seems like a lot of thought has gone into the design of the Duetto IV. The pre-heated water refilling the brew boiler as well as the uninsulated brew boiler (easy and cheap enough to add insulation if they thought it neccessary) seems to indicate they did a lot of testing before settling on this design. I'm happy to assume for this machine they found the right balance.

[Lyrebird]

There's a line of thought that brew boilers with PID shouldn't be insulated so that any temp overshoot corrects itself more quickly due to boiler heat loss. This gets it back under PID heating control sooner, keeping it tightly in the desired brew temp "zone".

That shouldn't be necessary if the PID is well tuned. If it happens the first thing to do is to turn the "I" parameter down.

[CafeLotta]

I can confirm this, it heats up pretty quick and if you really are on a time limit if you heat it up for approx 10 min where it will reach 93 degrees and then run some water through it the temp will drop down to about 85 degrees but return to 93 degrees pretty quickly and ive personally found you are pretty good from there.

Chris

If you're in a hurry just about any E61 machine will benefit from a few seconds of "hot flush" after the initial heat-up to temp (set temp reached on PID or light off non-PID). This gets heat into the E61 grouphead sooner. After 1 or 2 flushes though, the machine still needs to sit for a bit to equalise/stabilise temps throughout.

There's a line of thought that brew boilers with PID shouldn't be insulated so that any temp overshoot corrects itself more quickly due to boiler heat loss. This gets it back under PID heating control sooner, keeping it tightly in the desired brew temp "zone". The Alex Duetto IV is an example of this philosophy with an uninsulated Brew Boiler and an insulated Steam Boiler.

On a personal note, having used an E61 grouphead thermometer for the last few weeks on a non-PID Single boiler E61 machine, I can see the benefits of the 1 or 2 initial flushes to get to a stable working temperature quicker. On a single boiler though, it can also work against you. Overflushing can temporarily overheat the E61 grouphead. On mine which uses a capillary thermostat temp probe inside a thermowell , it can also temporarily drop the internal boiler temp below desired brew temp levels. This corrects itself after leaving some time for temperature to equalise/stabilise again but you would never know exactly what was causing the shot variation without an E61 grouphead thermometer. I imagine this characteristic lead to the non-PID E61 Single boilers falling out of favour. If they came with a brew water temp thermometer as standard, it may have helped. Its nowhere near as good as having a PID but does give some insights which can lead to better results by modifying your start-up and brewing routine.

The Alex Duetto IV seems to tick a hell of a lot of boxes and the quick heat-up time is just another!

[coffeechris]

I can confirm this, it heats up pretty quick and if you really are on a time limit if you heat it up for approx 10 min where it will reach 93 degrees and then run some water through it the temp will drop down to about 85 degrees but return to 93 degrees pretty quickly and ive personally found you are pretty good from there.

Chris

[Casa Espresso]

Alex Duetto IV - First impressions

What's the warm up time on this? Looking at it or the Leva.

A little faster then an HX E61 machine where you are looking at a good 25min to 30min before heat Equilabrium is achieved throughout the machine.

On the Duetto it is about 15min.
Boiler pressure will rise fairly quickly but it takes time for the heat to transfer through to the group head .

Cheers
Antony
www.casaespresso.com.au

[wfdTamar]

What's the warm up time on this? Looking at it or the Leva.