Bought a used Faema E98 compact A1 and looking for advice.

[Javaphile]

Thank´s for the reminder Javarepeatphile, I´m no expert at this but will of course look thoroughly at the schematics.
Regarding the water from mains and internal tank, the reason I´m baffeled about this (although your explanation was good) is that both my machines are connected different from the schematics. From mains the water goes in to Evc and from there to the internal tank. From there the water goes from the internal tank to the pump (see pic), but WITHOUT the T- joint. That is probably why there´s no water out of the pump, because it does not have pressure from mains. And that´s why I asked again about the internal tank, it´s only bypassing the mains supply pressure. How the former owner got water out of the group this way is still unknown to me, but I will try connecting the mains directly to the pump and short the two connectors for the probes in the internal tank as shown in the manual.

The pump does not require that it be connected directly to the mains in order for it to work. Hooked up as shown in the hydraulic schematic you attached the only reason the connection to mains is required is in order for the internal tank to be auto-filled. The pump can't fill it as it is attached to the item labeled "Ad" in your attached schematic which is the water softener, what you called the waterfilter in your next post, where it pulls water from the tank to distribute it to the rest of the machine. The mains supplies the pressure to push the water through Evc1 - when its relay opens it - and into the internal tank. In this configuration the water level probes are not shorted. If they were the tank would never fill/refill with water when it ran low as the machine would always think the tank was full.

When you say "but WITHOUT the T- joint" do you mean the T-fitting as shown in the upper right of your attached schematic is missing or that it was bypassed? Or are you referring to the pipe/hose labeled "T" in the bottom center of your attached schematic? If the latter the "T" means that pipe/hose has been capped/plugged, it is attached to nothing.

In your next post you say you removed the water softener, your waterfilter, and everything worked. That says the problem in your above setup was a plugged water softener and had nothing to do with where the mains was connected.

Update (and sorry for all the posts): disconnected probes and did NOT short them as manual says, and connected mains directly to pump.
(resistance between probes in water is 20Kohm´s so suspect that it should be a resistor in series between connectors to work )
Too much pressure, pump on overload, and the rubber hose started leaking. Reconnected probes and watertank, removed the waterfilter as this is not needed in Norway (2.5dH). Now everything is working, although I have no way to test brewing as the group gasket and showerscreen was destroid. New parts ordered on monday so will have to wait.
Have a nice weekend and thanks for all help so far!

The rubber hose started leaking? Unless you have a very different version from the one shown in the manual mains pressure should not be in any line that is not a metal one inside of the machine.

The section in the manual titled "Steps for Inverting the Supply" (Starting on page 13.) in the Installation chapter is showing you how to convert the machine from this configuration:



To the configuration in the schematic you attached in Post 17. My schematic is on page 39 on the manual directly below the one you posted (The above image is the one in the manual rotated 90 degrees clockwise.) and shows the pump connected directly to mains. It is in this configuration that the water level probe's wires are to be shorted to each other.

Notice in the pictures showing how to do the conversion that all of the pipes with mains pressure are metal. None of them are rubber! If you have water under mains pressure or under pump pressure running through rubber hoses inside of the machine you have something hooked up incorrectly or somebody in the past has substituted a rubber hose for an OEM part. I suggest you carefully trace your pipes/hoses and match them up to the hydraulic schematics and conversion pictures in the manual. In line with this can you post pictures of the tags on both of the machines you have showing their model number, specs, and manufacture dates as well as a picture of a front view of the machines. That might be helpful here as designs have been known to change over time.

Also note that Faema states that mains pressure should be regulated to no more than 6bars of pressure.


Java "I think that covers it" phile

[subchannel]

Update (and sorry for all the posts): disconnected probes and did NOT short them as manual says, and connected mains directly to pump.
(resistance between probes in water is 20Kohm´s so suspect that it should be a resistor in series between connectors to work )
Too much pressure, pump on overload, and the rubber hose started leaking. Reconnected probes and watertank, removed the waterfilter as this is not needed in Norway (2.5dH). Now everything is working, although I have no way to test brewing as the group gasket and showerscreen was destroid. New parts ordered on monday so will have to wait.
Have a nice weekend and thanks for all help so far!

[subchannel]

Thank´s for the reminder Javarepeatphile, I´m no expert at this but will of course look thoroughly at the schematics.
Regarding the water from mains and internal tank, the reason I´m baffeled about this (although your explanation was good) is that both my machines are connected different from the schematics. From mains the water goes in to Evc and from there to the internal tank. From there the water goes from the internal tank to the pump (see pic), but WITHOUT the T- joint. That is probably why there´s no water out of the pump, because it does not have pressure from mains. And that´s why I asked again about the internal tank, it´s only bypassing the mains supply pressure. How the former owner got water out of the group this way is still unknown to me, but I will try connecting the mains directly to the pump and short the two connectors for the probes in the internal tank as shown in the manual.

[Javaphile]

There's a circuit schematic in one of the manuals I linked you to. The same manual has the hydraulic schematic for your machine in it.

I told you in the same post that gave the link to the full manual that your machine can be hooked up to run from the internal tank alone or direct from mains. I also explained why it uses the internal tank even when hooked to mains.


Java "Repeat" phile

[subchannel]

There is another coupling at the left back of the machine (viewed from rear) after the pump. This has a large screw on the end, anyone know what this is for?
And the relay under the tank?

[subchannel]

Ok, getting closer. Connected the hose to mains after lightly cleaning. I didn´t find a 9mm to 3/8" adapter for the other machine, so I had to reassemble the first one. Powered up and the machine kicked in and filled the internal tank up to about 2cm over the tip of the probes (which also needed cleaning), then it stopped filling and the pump started to run. Boiler heated up and the manometer stopped at full green. Tested the grouphead, and some water came out, and then just a bit of steam. Same with hotwater tap, some water at first and the just steam. Steam wand is steaming. Run the grouphead for a while and the pump kicked in again, but this time it didn´t stop until the logic board stopped the whole machine and started the alarm. Turned the mains of and on, same problem. Lifted the probes out of the internal tank and back, it started filling again. The pump started but didn´t stop. This time the manometer increased to over green before I turned it off. The machine is not used in many many years, and judging by the filth in the parts I´ve cleaned I suspect some clogging from boiler to grouphead or before the flowmeter.

Any suggestions for why there´s only steam out of group head?
Thanks again!

And still wondering about why the machine fills the internal tank and then draws water to the boiler from this??

[subchannel]

I have cleaned the solenoid in question. these are 24VAC solenoids. And it´s working. Have bought parts form the shop to connect to mains so I will try that.

[roosterben]

There are quite detailed parts diagrams in the links from Javaphile sent. If you have look online there should be a circuit diagram around.

Re the solenoid they are easy to pull out and disassemble, soak in water and acid then test. If they don't test and work the 240 magnetic part may have failed and need replacing.

[subchannel]

Thank you very much for the feedback. I read the manual before purchasing. I bought it because it checks all my boxes: small, HX, rotary pump, metric controll (for wife) and a bit of 80´s aestethics. From what I´ve read and seen in reviews online rotary pull more consistent pressure than vibration, and it´s more silent, but that´s for another discussion.
I´m still a bit baffeled over why it´s connected to the mains AND have an internal tank, but my plan is to use it from mains. I followed the instructions in the manual for converting to internal only (but in reverse), but still the issue with the solenoid not opening. I repair vintage turntables and hifi for a living, and wonder why coffeemachine makers don´t have the same schematics as the audio industrie when it comes to the electronic side of things. I will read all posts here and try again, AFTER connecting to mains. Off to the plumber shop! Have a nice day!

[Javaphile]

Looking at the schematics it should be an easy mod.


Java "Gotta love a good manual!" phile

[roosterben]

Yeah pity it is not a pressure plate type setup where you could just change the two connectors to complete the circuit. I do this when I have a machine apart and the tank is not sitting on the pressure plate.

I can imagine some shocking moldy tanks would result from this setup.

[Javaphile]

Personally I don't like it and if I owned one as soon as I verified that everything on it worked as it should I would mod it so the internal water reservoir wasn't kept topped up.


Java "Not a fan of standing water" phile

[roosterben]

Very cool Javaphile, I have worked on a few of these but they must have been the vibrating pump versions. I have never seen that type of setup needing water in the internal tank to run when plumbed in.

[Javaphile]

Welcome to the site subchannel.

First off let's start by getting you the manuals for your machines. They can be found here.

New/additional information. See Comment 11.5 and Post 19 for modification/clarification of the following paragraph.

Next, your machines can be plumbed to run either from the internal tank or direct from the mains. When set up to run from the mains to fully operate correctly they do indeed have to be hooked up to the mains and not to a bucket of water. When set up to be plumbed to mains the internal tank is filled (Yes the internal tank is filled when plumbed to mains.) using mains pressure, not the pump. However, water is not drawn from the internal tank for use. The tank is filled only to trip the necessary circuits so the machine will perform its start-up checks and operate rather than thinking it's out of water. If you want to convert the machine to run from the internal tank the manual has the appropriate hydraulic schematic. Unless it's absolutely necessary though I wouldn't do it as you're making more problems for yourself.

Use the above posts to help troubleshoot your water flow problems and let us know how it goes.


Java "They're great machines, until the electronics die." phile

[subchannel]

Hello Coffeesnobs. This is my first post here, so please apologize if this is the wrong thread. If so, I would be grateful if someone could point me to the right directions, and how to post new thread.

Anyway:
I´ve just started to restore espresso machines, and have bought quite a few. The prices on second hand commercial machines are very low here in Norway (could be the times we are in). My latest purchase was two Faema E98 Compact A-1´s with two Mazzer Mini grinders. I was told one of the machines was working when pulled of duty a year ago, but I´m having some issues.
Both machines are identical (2000 and 2001 models): rotary pump with mains connection for water inlet and internal water tank. What I´ve read is that rotary pumps need water pressure to work properly, although the last two machines I restored ran well from just a water tank on the side (Expobar Megacreme Compact 2).

Problem machine one:
Powers up, volumetric buttons work, but the pump is making some unwanted noise. Water is coming out of the grouphead but slow (these are very bad cared for machines so could be clogged). It´s not draining any water from the external tank. Pump is running, even with water in the internal tank. Except for the pump sound, is this correct?

Problem machine two:
Pump stuck, so I took it out and turned it manually. This is now running as it should, but no water out of group head. I took it apart step by step, and all tubes are open from water inlet to after the pump. I disconnected the tubes and ran the pump without water (yes, I know) and put my mouth on the intake tube to see if pulled any air. It does but very weak.
The solenoid valve before the pump does kick in when wires for water level in internal tank is connected to the two probes, but then the pump won´t run. When shorting the two wires (according to manual) the pump motor is running but the solenoid doesn´t open. I can see from the parts manual that there´s different versions of the pump and pump motor.
I also think that this is almost the same machine as Cimbali Junior (boiler sais Cimbali).

Is this a machine that needs to be connected to external water pressure to work? If so, why an internal watertank in addition to the external water inlet? Is it supposed to automaticly fill the internal tank ? That, to me, seem a bit fat on butter as we say here up north.

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance! (If anything is badly explained, please ask me to try explain it better)