Lever press GS3

[Casa Espresso]

Lever press GS3

I suspect the flavour differences you are observing are as a result of a spring lever extraction and the unique pressure profile that a spring lever develops .
Not necessarily the result of a GS3 lever conversion. You would probably see the same flavour profile on a top end domestic lever (Alex izzo, Pro 800 , Strega PID).
In any event I commend you on the purchase.
This has been one of the more interesting threads on levers...

Cheers

Antony
www.casaespresso.com.au

[Yelta]

Have you ever used a lever machine Yelta?

Only the LaPavoni Barry.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

I view Lever machines in a similar light to manual shift cars, the purist petrol head may well buy a manual, and not unnaturally declare it superior, the truth is most of us now drive an auto, not surprisingly, they still do the job they are intended for, and, with less hassle than a stick shift.

Have you ever used a lever machine Yelta?

[Faatshank]

That is, it wins hands down in my opinion. I guess it also comes down to people's preference on taste to some degree.

[Faatshank]

Manual or no manual - the proof is in the cup. With the Lever GS3 and the Speedster lined up side by side - same bean - same grinder - 30 mil shot in 25 seconds with the Speedster and the equivalent in the Lever GS3. Very different flavour. GS3 Lever wins hands down....

[Yelta]

I view Lever machines in a similar light to manual shift cars, the purist petrol head may well buy a manual, and not unnaturally declare it superior, the truth is most of us now drive an auto, not surprisingly, they still do the job they are intended for, and, with less hassle than a stick shift.

[Casa Espresso]

I am not sure where such data would come from .

There is actually no such thing a a factory GS3 lever.

What we are looking at here is a modified unit by a very clever coffee tech.

As far as I know this is a one off

Cheers

Antony
www.casaespresso.com.au

[warmtone]

As I am in the market for an upgrade I am also delving into some fundamental questions about upgrade options.
At present the head says dual boiler PID ECM Synchro /Izzo Alex iv but the heart says go for a lever!

While both the Izzo and Profitec lever options are attractive (Pro 800/Alex Leva) I have been puzzled by the vagueness in accurately managing the actual group head temperature from a single boiler design albeit OID controlled.

While these manufacturers provide dual boiler with dual PID control for their respective conventional high end machines it seems the lever design somehow doesn’t need this level of sophistication???

My question is why is the brew temperature suddenly less critical for the equivalent high end lever design?

I have been assured in another thread that the drop in temperature from the single big boiler to the group head ensures the water reaching the group is optimum. But you can’t actually measure it!

However, the Slayer article confirms my perception that initial temp hitting the brew can be higher than normal ...... but diminishes through the brewing period - presumably contributing to the unique lever profile.
This coupled with the pressure profile of infusion/gradual spring pressure decay seems to be part of the magical lever formula.

In contrast I expect the GS3 lever design uses a different approach and supplies the steam wand and group head from the two seperate boilers using dual PID control.

I think this design provides the ultimate platform to exploit the full potential of the lever system by keeping steaming and brewing functions seperate albeit at a high cost!

It would be interesting to compare shots from the lever GS3 vs Izzo/Profitec alternatives......

[JMcCee]

It is an interesting discussion. I have always regarded pump or HX E61 type machines as things to be discussed as a whole, which is not a bad thing-

Levers on the other hand have their heart and soul in a majestic chunk of brass out front with everything behind just a means to an end.

Cripes! I'm sounding like a right royal leverhead.. :-)

[Faatshank]

I've been doing this with my Bezzera Domus Galatea (producing gloopy full flavour shots) for almost 10 years.

Not unusual with machines aimed at the higher end of the market.

Not trying to denigrate your Lever GS3, I like the concept.

No offence taken - I think it is a good discussion. I also have been making (what I would call) excellent shots with all the machines that I have had the pleasure of using along my coffee journey - LM GS3, LM Linea Mini, Domabar Super, Domobar Junior, ECM Giotto, Rocket R58, Speedster etc etc.

I guess what I am trying to say is the Lever Press GS3 is just very different in terms of flavour profile and extraction compared to the other machines that I have owned.

Different in a really delightful way. I put this down to a combination of the Lever Press and the solid foundations of the actual GS3 machine.

Another way to look at it is (at least from my perspective) as follows - copied and pasted from the following website: https://slayerespresso.com/lever-espresso-extraction/

"something about the espresso extracted from a lever machine that is clearly distinct from what we can pull of a standard pump driven espresso machine.

Lever shots tend to be much softer and smoother, often sweeter.

As well, those who have pulled lever shots are keenly aware of the distinct visual appearance of the espresso as it begins to appear & flow from the portafilter during the initial infusion".

This really nails what I am talking about and trying to explain (probably very badly!!).

Faatshank

[Yelta]

The only other thing I would add is the following. I remember reading on the CS forums someone describing a Lever Press espresso shot as goopey (it might even be in this thread). The comment was along the lines of "I love the goopey shots that the lever machines produce". The shots that I am achieving with the Lever GS3 (in my opinion and view) are exactly that - goopey, thick like caramel and so full of flavour. Whatever is explained as the coffee flavour (chocolate notes with berry hints or whatever etc), I can genuinely taste and distinguish. This sort of extraction/shot is consistently achieved with the Lever GS3, time and time again. And this sort of shot is something I have aimed to achieve with all my other machines with much less success. No doubt some of this will come down to my skill (or lack thereof), but gee the Lever GS3 makes it so easy. Just my two cents.

I've been doing this with my Bezzera Domus Galatea (producing gloopy full flavour shots) for almost 10 years.

Not unusual with machines aimed at the higher end of the market.

Not trying to denigrate your Lever GS3, I like the concept.

[Faatshank]

Lever press GS3

The only other thing I would add is the following. I remember reading on the CS forums someone describing a Lever Press espresso shot as goopey (it might even be in this thread). The comment was along the lines of "I love the goopey shots that the lever machines produce". The shots that I am achieving with the Lever GS3 (in my opinion and view) are exactly that - goopey, thick like caramel and so full of flavour. Whatever is explained as the coffee flavour (chocolate notes with berry hints or whatever etc), I can genuinely taste and distinguish. This sort of extraction/shot is consistently achieved with the Lever GS3, time and time again. And this sort of shot is something I have aimed to achieve with all my other machines with much less success. No doubt some of this will come down to my skill (or lack thereof), but gee the Lever GS3 makes it so easy. Just my two cents.

[kofekitt]

I was thinking about this and wondering how well it would work in reality... Seems like the pressure profiling abilities and temp stability of the GS3 (esp MP with needle valve) would go begging... Kinda like working over a muscle car to just end up at exactly the same power/weight ratio but with a cooler accelerator pedal. Are there any production levas intended for domestic use that aren't single-boiler dippers?

It just looks so damn good, in a slightly steam punk kinda way.

As far as i know , the options for non dipper are limited - Quickmill Veloce (not available here) , Londinium , Maybe the Izzo Leva, not sure if its HX or dipper , different sites list it as both...

Re- the GS3 lever , i like the looks of it , as a lever fan who often thinks about grafting levers onto other machines, i'd love to see more of the group/boiler interface, specifically any work they've done to alleviate the stress of pulling the lever has on the boiler / group junction . Most lever machines have the group bolted to the frame to minimise movement , but this set-up seems to be mounted to the boiler neck .

[Faatshank]

Lever press GS3

All fair comments. From my perspective, I can't answer any of the technicalities and as I alluded to in my original post, I am generally not into the detail. I will however say this. I have owned GS3's and many other machines before the lever press GS3, included my much adored Speedster. In my humble opinion the Lever GS3 makes the best espresso shot of all the machines I have owned - hands down. I think this however comes down to the power of the Lever Press as opposed to anything else. Personally I love the optics of the GS3 machine with the Lever head, but understand it won't be to everyone's taste.

[Magic_Matt]

I have held fire on this one. I know the guys at CMT very well and they are excellent technicians.

This one however is not something i would be doing to a GS3. Good as a one off but....


Antony

I was thinking about this and wondering how well it would work in reality... Seems like the pressure profiling abilities and temp stability of the GS3 (esp MP with needle valve) would go begging... Kinda like working over a muscle car to just end up at exactly the same power/weight ratio but with a cooler accelerator pedal. Are there any production levas intended for domestic use that aren't single-boiler dippers?

It just looks so damn good, in a slightly steam punk kinda way.