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Profitec Pro 600 Dual Boiler 0.75L + 1L mid-July

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  • Profitec Pro 600 Dual Boiler 0.75L + 1L mid-July

    Noticed this listed on Site Sponsor Jetblack's web-site as landing in mid-July with their best guess price of $3499.
    https://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/...ofitec-pro-600

    Specs look good. Have to wait for final pricing which could determine level of interest I guess.

    Same size as Profitec 500 but a Dual-Boiler - 0.75L SS Brew boiler + 1.0L SS steam/hot water boiler both with 1000W SS heating elements and individual temp control.
    https://www.profitec-espresso.com/en...s/pro-600.html

    Click image for larger version

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    • Dual boiler (single boiler option)
    • E61 brew group with stainless steel bell
    • PID-display for the individual temperature adjustment of both boilers
    • PID-display indicates the brewing time in seconds
    • Manually adjustable brewing pressure
    • Programmable ECO-Mode
    • Brew group cleaning reminder
    • Wear-free rotary valves
    • Vibration pump
    • 2.8 l water tank
    • Automatic shut-off when machine reaches low water volume
    • 0.75 l stainless steel coffee Boiler
    • 1.0 l stainless steel steam and hot water boiler
    • Boiler insulation
    • Boiler and pump pressure gauges
    • Stainless steel 1000 Watts heaters
    • Removeable cup tray
    • Weight 24 kg / 53 lb
    • Dimensions W x D x H:
      305 x 450 x 395 mm without portafilter
      305 x 555 x 395 mm with portafilter
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 9 July 2018, 08:47 PM.

  • #2
    I quite like the shape and position of the steam/hot water wands.

    Comment


    • #3
      These machines are out there now and available for purchase. They sound ideal for the lower volume user who doesn't require a large dual boiler with their larger steam boilers. Seems to sit in the higher end Hx machine area of the market but satisfies the additional requirement of more precise PID control of brew water temperature in the dedicated 750ml brew boiler as well as individual PID temp control of the separate 1L steam boiler.

      With the various deals out there on Hx machines, the Profitec Pro 600 may struggle for traction in the marketplace though at the price point of approx. $3400. I suppose time will tell.

      Comment


      • #4
        A look at these being assembled in Milan and features explained.

        I imagine that the October 2018 delivery date mentioned in the video is for the 110V version destined for the US (?).

        Last edited by CafeLotta; 16 August 2018, 03:28 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by CafeLotta View Post
          With the various deals out there on Hx machines, the Profitec Pro 600 may struggle for traction in the marketplace though at the price point of approx. $3400. I suppose time will tell.
          I believe that it would be taking sales away from the Pro 700/ECM Synchronika type machines, as this does pretty much the same thing at a much cheaper price. The 2bar steam pressure is also better than most other DB machines.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Papanick View Post
            The 2bar steam pressure is also better than most other DB machines.
            Just remember though, that this is a fairly meaningless specification on it's own. Yes, it's 2 bar, but the boiler is very small at 1 litre. This means the pressure falls away very rapidly as soon as you release steam. It's not going to steam as well as the machines with 2+ litre boilers

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by herzog View Post
              Just remember though, that this is a fairly meaningless specification on it's own. Yes, it's 2 bar, but the boiler is very small at 1 litre. This means the pressure falls away very rapidly as soon as you release steam. It's not going to steam as well as the machines with 2+ litre boilers
              True in some respects, but if the water level, element rating and PID Control are optimised as a system to maintain steam production then this won't be noticeable with normal usage...

              Mal.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dimal View Post
                True in some respects, but if the water level, element rating and PID Control are optimised as a system to maintain steam production then this won't be noticeable with normal usage.
                Yes for sure Mal.
                I also think about the amount of milk I steam at home. I steam about 150ml for a latte and with my Pro 500 at about 1.3 bar steaming takes 6-8 seconds. I suppose with 2 bar steaming will take 3-4 seconds or so with a Profitec Pro 600 so there’s no risk of seam power running out. I reckon the engineers would have this all optimised as Mal said above.
                GR

                Comment


                • #9
                  Questions about the PID for PID machine owners.

                  Do you adjust temperature regularly? Do you adjust from bean to bean or do you adjust from day to day or do you just set and forget?

                  I have a gut feeling that most will play with the PID temperature for a few months then set and forget and leave the PID setting at 93 or 94 degrees.

                  Thoughts [emoji189] ??
                  GR

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Grillsy View Post
                    Yes for sure Mal.
                    I also think about the amount of milk I steam at home. I steam about 150ml for a latte and with my Pro 500 at about 1.3 bar steaming takes 6-8 seconds. I suppose with 2 bar steaming will take 3-4 seconds or so with a Profitec Pro 600 so there’s no risk of seam power running out. I reckon the engineers would have this all optimised as Mal said above.
                    GR
                    3-4 seconds for milk steaming would make it quite challenging to control I'd imagine. Very little margin for error if you want to hit the right temp.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Papanick View Post
                      I believe that it would be taking sales away from the Pro 700/ECM Synchronika type machines, as this does pretty much the same thing at a much cheaper price. The 2bar steam pressure is also better than most other DB machines.
                      Market positioning is interesting. Comes in at the top end of the HX range so could appeal to people shopping in that space. Undercuts the other dual boiler like the Pro 700, R58, ECM Sync etc. I guess its closest comparison is it's stablemate, the Pro 700. Its like a more compact version of this. From what I can gather going to the Pro 700 you would pay an extra $500 for a larger boiler.

                      I think this machine will catch the attention of people shopping in both the high end HX and the dual boiler space. HX buyers are looking at a quality dual boiler for similar money. Dual boiler shoppers are looking at a decent cost saving.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by arcachon View Post
                        3-4 seconds for milk steaming would make it quite challenging to control I'd imagine. Very little margin for error if you want to hit the right temp.
                        The point was made in the video that PID control for Steam Temp was to optimize steam for the size of jug (quantity of milk) being steamed. For a 2 cup jug you would turn down the temp for more control.

                        Originally posted by herzog View Post
                        Just remember though, that this is a fairly meaningless specification on it's own. Yes, it's 2 bar, but the boiler is very small at 1 litre. This means the pressure falls away very rapidly as soon as you release steam. It's not going to steam as well as the machines with 2+ litre boilers
                        Horses for courses. If you want to steam multiple large jugs of milk regularly then the Pro 700 dual boiler is the right choice. If you want to steam a 2 or 4 cup jug individually once or even a few times a day with the occasional multiple jug requirement, then the Pro 600 is the better choice. Saves on heating up a 2 litre boiler for lower usage.

                        Originally posted by Grillsy View Post
                        Questions about the PID for PID machine owners.

                        Do you adjust temperature regularly? Do you adjust from bean to bean or do you adjust from day to day or do you just set and forget?

                        I have a gut feeling that most will play with the PID temperature for a few months then set and forget and leave the PID setting at 93 or 94 degrees.

                        Thoughts [emoji189] ??
                        GR
                        There are those who want to set and forget and just enjoy good coffee. The Pro 500 PID Hx machine is ideal for this but allows a little PID control by adjusting temp in the Hx steam boiler and therefore by default brew temp to a point.

                        Others just can't help but chase that little extra in control and love to tinker to get that last % out of each different bean/roast depth. The PID dual Boilers like the Pro 600 and Pro 700 cater for them.

                        For very low usage users (maybe 1 cup each for 2 individuals in the morning) there is always the option of a single boiler PID machine such as the ECM Classika. At around $2000 or under for a quality machine with PID but the downside of waiting a minute or two between brewing and steaming, it may suit some people better. For the occassional higher use requirement it would probably become annoying waiting for the boiler to cool to brew temp again after steaming. Once again, horses for courses.
                        Last edited by CafeLotta; 17 August 2018, 11:37 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Grillsy View Post
                          Questions about the PID for PID machine owners.

                          Do you adjust temperature regularly? Do you adjust from bean to bean or do you adjust from day to day or do you just set and forget?

                          I have a gut feeling that most will play with the PID temperature for a few months then set and forget and leave the PID setting at 93 or 94 degrees.

                          Thoughts [emoji189] ??
                          GR
                          I adjust according to roast and taste. The general consensus is darker roast lower temperature, lighter roast higher temperature.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Greenlai View Post
                            I adjust according to roast and taste. The general consensus is darker roast lower temperature, lighter roast higher temperature.
                            We ended up with a store bought bag of beans which were a particularly dark roast (maybe too dark). At the usual temp we brew, it was not pleasant at all. Having only a group-head thermometer rather than a PID, we were able to adjust our heat-up/flush routine to get temp down by 1-2 deg C and ended up with a reasonable brew. Another 1-2 deg C lower and it was again becoming a little unpleasant. A single or dual boiler with a dedicated brew boiler incorporating a well designed PID would make the process of chasing that perfect temp a lot easier. I look forward to the day I have one on the bench and don't have to temp surf anymore. My non-PID single boiler E61 with 0.75L boiler can still fluctuate on brew temp quite bit which again highlighted the importance of developing a consistent heat-up, flush and brew routine.
                            Last edited by CafeLotta; 25 August 2018, 02:14 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Used to own PL60Tv2 with a small steam boiler (600ml?), I find the steaming power is sufficient for my usage.

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