Profitec Pro 600 Dual Boiler 0.75L + 1L mid-July

[herzog]

Don't really understand why the advertised price of the Profitec 600 in the UK is approx. $3000(Aud) and in the USA around $3150(Aud), yet here in Australia $3399?

Geeze if that’s full AU RRP including GST I think that Australian pricing pretty darned close to overseas pricing. It’s within about 10%. That’s pretty good. Street pricing might be a little lower than RRP.

Don’t forget these things weigh something like 40kgs and there’s costs involved in shipping to the opposite corner of the world.

[CafeLotta]

I'm actively in the market for a Pro 600 and have had my eye out for awhile now. Hoping one of the resellers has a Black Friday or Boxing Day sale that I can save a little more on. We'll see.

I suspect a few people were interested but baulked at the price we have to pay here. I was really keen for a while and had hoped the price would settle back closer to $3000. Gone cold on the idea now as they just seem too expensive in my opinion. The lack of reviews compared to other machines in the price bracket might back this up somewhat.

As far as the sales go, I've noticed that the real bargains are few and far between. On the 'Bay quite a few retailers mark up their prices so the offered discounts (10%) etc bring you back near the normal price. Have seen this with TVs, computer parts, even espresso machines.

[Nugmo]

You'll find it's related to a range of factors, from local electrical compliance costs, import costs & duties, distributor/importer margins, then add on domestic freight & handling + the re-seller's margins + being a smaller market with little competition = welcome to the fun of Australia. It's not really worth considering importing one from the UK (not USA given the inverter costs) unless there's a significant price difference ie $600+. When you add freight costs + 5% import duties, +10% GST, +$150 freight clearance charges + any voltage difference & warranty issues the difference disappears very fast.

I'm actively in the market for a Pro 600 and have had my eye out for awhile now. Hoping one of the resellers has a Black Friday or Boxing Day sale that I can save a little more on. We'll see.

[CafeLotta]

I would guess shipping costs and the local importer doing testing here before shipping to clients. Also note many Australian distributors include freight. Perhaps that accounts for price difference. As an exercise try and find out shipping costs fro UK. Comparison to USA with this would need to factor in conversion to 240 volt.

Aust. shipping costs Approx. $75. Equivalent shipping inside UK $55AUD. It's not a case of what it would cost to ship from the UK but rather on a direct comparison we pay more for the same product here. It's a captive market here. I've even heard of another brand's distributor instructing retailers not to discount or he will stop supplying them if they do. This price fixing is actually illegal but does occurr unfortunately.

https://www.accc.gov.au/business/ant...s/price-fixing

[gordons]

Don't really understand why the advertised price of the Profitec 600 in the UK is approx. $3000(Aud) and in the USA around $3150(Aud), yet here in Australia $3399?

I would guess shipping costs and the local importer doing testing here before shipping to clients. Also note many Australian distributors include freight. Perhaps that accounts for price difference. As an exercise try and find out shipping costs fro UK. Comparison to USA with this would need to factor in conversion to 240 volt.

[CafeLotta]

With the various deals out there on Hx machines, the Profitec Pro 600 may struggle for traction in the marketplace though at the price point of approx. $3400. I suppose time will tell.

Don't really understand why the advertised price of the Profitec 600 in the UK is approx. $3000(Aud) and in the USA around $3150(Aud), yet here in Australia $3399?

[CafeLotta]

Lifted from another thread. "Very interesting to compare design and build quality of the Lelit Bianca and Profitec Pro 600 internally."

Lelit Bianca internal - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW72A1SmQZ4

Profitec Pro 600 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebdzV7dExa8

[sacsnob]

Used to own PL60Tv2 with a small steam boiler (600ml?), I find the steaming power is sufficient for my usage.

[CafeLotta]

I adjust according to roast and taste. The general consensus is darker roast lower temperature, lighter roast higher temperature.

We ended up with a store bought bag of beans which were a particularly dark roast (maybe too dark). At the usual temp we brew, it was not pleasant at all. Having only a group-head thermometer rather than a PID, we were able to adjust our heat-up/flush routine to get temp down by 1-2 deg C and ended up with a reasonable brew. Another 1-2 deg C lower and it was again becoming a little unpleasant. A single or dual boiler with a dedicated brew boiler incorporating a well designed PID would make the process of chasing that perfect temp a lot easier. I look forward to the day I have one on the bench and don't have to temp surf anymore. My non-PID single boiler E61 with 0.75L boiler can still fluctuate on brew temp quite bit which again highlighted the importance of developing a consistent heat-up, flush and brew routine.

[Greenlai]

Questions about the PID for PID machine owners.

Do you adjust temperature regularly? Do you adjust from bean to bean or do you adjust from day to day or do you just set and forget?

I have a gut feeling that most will play with the PID temperature for a few months then set and forget and leave the PID setting at 93 or 94 degrees.

Thoughts [emoji189] ??
GR

I adjust according to roast and taste. The general consensus is darker roast lower temperature, lighter roast higher temperature.

[CafeLotta]

3-4 seconds for milk steaming would make it quite challenging to control I'd imagine. Very little margin for error if you want to hit the right temp.

The point was made in the video that PID control for Steam Temp was to optimize steam for the size of jug (quantity of milk) being steamed. For a 2 cup jug you would turn down the temp for more control.

Just remember though, that this is a fairly meaningless specification on it's own. Yes, it's 2 bar, but the boiler is very small at 1 litre. This means the pressure falls away very rapidly as soon as you release steam. It's not going to steam as well as the machines with 2+ litre boilers

Horses for courses. If you want to steam multiple large jugs of milk regularly then the Pro 700 dual boiler is the right choice. If you want to steam a 2 or 4 cup jug individually once or even a few times a day with the occasional multiple jug requirement, then the Pro 600 is the better choice. Saves on heating up a 2 litre boiler for lower usage.

Questions about the PID for PID machine owners.

Do you adjust temperature regularly? Do you adjust from bean to bean or do you adjust from day to day or do you just set and forget?

I have a gut feeling that most will play with the PID temperature for a few months then set and forget and leave the PID setting at 93 or 94 degrees.

Thoughts [emoji189] ??
GR

There are those who want to set and forget and just enjoy good coffee. The Pro 500 PID Hx machine is ideal for this but allows a little PID control by adjusting temp in the Hx steam boiler and therefore by default brew temp to a point.

Others just can't help but chase that little extra in control and love to tinker to get that last % out of each different bean/roast depth. The PID dual Boilers like the Pro 600 and Pro 700 cater for them.

For very low usage users (maybe 1 cup each for 2 individuals in the morning) there is always the option of a single boiler PID machine such as the ECM Classika. At around $2000 or under for a quality machine with PID but the downside of waiting a minute or two between brewing and steaming, it may suit some people better. For the occassional higher use requirement it would probably become annoying waiting for the boiler to cool to brew temp again after steaming. Once again, horses for courses.

[arcachon]

I believe that it would be taking sales away from the Pro 700/ECM Synchronika type machines, as this does pretty much the same thing at a much cheaper price. The 2bar steam pressure is also better than most other DB machines.

Market positioning is interesting. Comes in at the top end of the HX range so could appeal to people shopping in that space. Undercuts the other dual boiler like the Pro 700, R58, ECM Sync etc. I guess its closest comparison is it's stablemate, the Pro 700. Its like a more compact version of this. From what I can gather going to the Pro 700 you would pay an extra $500 for a larger boiler.

I think this machine will catch the attention of people shopping in both the high end HX and the dual boiler space. HX buyers are looking at a quality dual boiler for similar money. Dual boiler shoppers are looking at a decent cost saving.

[arcachon]

Yes for sure Mal.
I also think about the amount of milk I steam at home. I steam about 150ml for a latte and with my Pro 500 at about 1.3 bar steaming takes 6-8 seconds. I suppose with 2 bar steaming will take 3-4 seconds or so with a Profitec Pro 600 so there’s no risk of seam power running out. I reckon the engineers would have this all optimised as Mal said above.
GR

3-4 seconds for milk steaming would make it quite challenging to control I'd imagine. Very little margin for error if you want to hit the right temp.

[Dodgy-Account-Grillsy]

Questions about the PID for PID machine owners.

Do you adjust temperature regularly? Do you adjust from bean to bean or do you adjust from day to day or do you just set and forget?

I have a gut feeling that most will play with the PID temperature for a few months then set and forget and leave the PID setting at 93 or 94 degrees.

Thoughts [emoji189] ??
GR

[Dodgy-Account-Grillsy]

True in some respects, but if the water level, element rating and PID Control are optimised as a system to maintain steam production then this won't be noticeable with normal usage.

Yes for sure Mal.
I also think about the amount of milk I steam at home. I steam about 150ml for a latte and with my Pro 500 at about 1.3 bar steaming takes 6-8 seconds. I suppose with 2 bar steaming will take 3-4 seconds or so with a Profitec Pro 600 so there’s no risk of seam power running out. I reckon the engineers would have this all optimised as Mal said above.
GR