Cafelotta, I think we are on a pretty similar page.
Agree with you about wasting airtime on angel accounts (what a nice name he coined), there seemed to be lots happening with old bull, young bull, a tapatalk addiction and probably plenty other things we have no idea about.
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Profitec Pro 600 Dual Boiler 0.75L + 1L mid-July
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Agree with this. Maybe it got lost in my comments but the point I was originally trying to make was that the base price (RRP?) in Australia for the Profitec 600 starts out higher than the USA and UK when doing a direct comparison using the exchange rate. On the other hand ECM machines here in Australia are on par price wise with the USA and UK and would have the same associated costs as Profitec to import, get compliance etc.Originally posted by 338 View PostMy point is the lowest possible price is not always the priority or best deal for everyone.
Appreciate the comment. It seems there is a lot more to the story regarding Mr. Angel Accounts. For whatever reason I really didn't tune into it at the time. It wasn't until the recent disclosures here on CS that some of the members comments mad sense. Anyway, enough air time wasted on that topic probably.Originally posted by 338 View PostNo I am not and apologies if you feel that way. I thought you, a longstanding member with frequent involvement in discussions and a keen interest in machinery, would be the ideal proof to prove to you that it is very hard to have perfect knowledge of what is happening in the industry for outsiders.
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Congratulations Nugmo, looking forward to read what you think of the machine.
Cafe Lotta, I think you have missed my point. I do not think the coffee industry is without sin, far from it. My point is the lowest possible price is not always the priority or best deal for everyone. If someone chooses to pay a couple of hundred dollars extra to buy from their small local guy, the guy they buy their beans from every week, the person they have a personal relationship with, the person they know who will back their interests in a warranty claim rather than the distributors - all rather than buying from a larger retailer or a retailer at the other side of this vast continent - well I can see how that and the peace of mind it provides represents the best deal for them. For another person who is handy buying a no warranty machine at a substantial discount may be a better deal. As I have said here before, there is a hat for every head, but the same hat will not fit every head.
No I am not and apologies if you feel that way. I thought you, a longstanding member with frequent involvement in discussions and a keen interest in machinery, would be the ideal proof to prove to you that it is very hard to have perfect knowledge of what is happening in the industry for outsiders. I thought the shenanigans were well publicised before, during and after the individual concerned leaving. I even heard about them outside the forum. You suggest his online profile elsewhere is different. Well you would hardly expect him to write about his fake accounts on his website - but interestingly enough he does!Originally posted by CafeLotta View PostYeah, you are.
He call his fake accounts 'angel accounts' who were there to fight for him and stick up for him when others were harsh to him. I honestly thought the reason he had so many comments, both good and bad, was because at the end of his tenure it felt like 50% of all forum posts came from him. With that volume of posts you have to be generating responses. Of course with that volume of posts it is also hard to make each one meaningful. I understand some consider those fake accounts as angel accounts, I personally just consider it false and misleading and call it as such.
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Well done Nugmo, enjoy your new machine.Originally posted by Nugmo View PostSo I jumped on some BF deals and ordered a Pro 600. Nothing off the machine, asides from free shipping & some beans. Though the accessories were at an excellent price, better then I was expecting. Waiting on the next shipping batch of Niche Zero grinders, so may be a little while before I can provide some feedback on the P600.
Figured I'd been doing the indecisive dance for awhile and it was time to just jump in.
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So I jumped on some BF deals and ordered a Pro 600. Nothing off the machine, asides from free shipping & some beans. Though the accessories were at an excellent price, better then I was expecting. Waiting on the next shipping batch of Niche Zero grinders, so may be a little while before I can provide some feedback on the P600.
Figured I'd been doing the indecisive dance for awhile and it was time to just jump in.
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There was a lot of inuendo regarding that particular retailer after the fact and unless you had followed their particular threads at the time, you'd be none the wiser. Online profile elsewhere appeared to be different from here. It was only in more recent times that their behaviour here on CS was clarified on the forum and the posts this retailer made under numerous aliases were relabelled Dodgy-Account-******, as appears in this thread in the earlier posts.Originally posted by 338 View PostYet in this very thread you were pointing others in the direction of a retailer who has been playing consumers for a mug for a few years now!
There are lots of questionable practices that go on in retail and the coffee industry has it's fair share. It's a case of what you don't know won't........
One of the classics I came across a couple of years ago was to do with the distributor of what was once a well supported brand of coffee machine. I rang the distributor (interstate) and asked for a list of retailers in my state. I was told there were none and if I wanted to buy a particular machine I would have to buy from him. I did a bit more searching and found a lesser known retailer nearby who sold this brand. I verified that they sourced their machines from this distributor. When I called out the distributor about this he "suddenly remembered" this retailer. I voiced my disgust at his actions and was later offered a 30% discount on the machine I was interested in. Told him I didn't trust him and wondered how warranty repairs would be handled if he lied so readily to prospective buyers. Might partly explain why the brand largely fell by the wayside here in Aust.
Yeah, you are.Originally posted by 338 View PostNot having a go at you....
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Yet in this very thread you were pointing others in the direction of a retailer who has been playing consumers for a mug for a few years now! Not having a go at you, just pointing out how someone like you who is very knowledgeable about the market, the machines and does reseach was also fooled. There is more to the transaction than price, such as how easy it is to access back up service or warranty (often very hard to compare) and I can understand someone who pays a small margin to get peace of mind on an aspect of the transaction which matters to them.Originally posted by CafeLotta View PostPersonally, I avoid retailers that play the consumer for a mug. These days doing your background research on prices before you buy is more important than ever.
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Unfortunately the opposite is true too. Once retailers see their competitors have stopped discounting or raised prices, they are quick to follow suit. Price fixing on certain products also seems to have increased in more recent times. Personally, I avoid retailers that play the consumer for a mug. These days doing your background research on prices before you buy is more important than ever.Originally posted by Yelta View PostEvening Cafelotta, competition and retailers scrambling for market share along with population size probably has quite a bit to do with this, once one business raises the bar others are forced to follow.
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Evening Cafelotta, competition and retailers scrambling for market share along with population size probably has quite a bit to do with this, once one business raises the bar others are forced to follow.Originally posted by CafeLotta View PostI've also noticed extras like matching naked portafilters are rarely included here whereas overseas they're often included.
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I agree CafeLotta, extended warranties are genuinely worth something.
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Just get the 700. You know you want it. It’ll be worth it, no more wanting to upgrade, and those few hundred dollars extra amortised over 10 years or so is nothing 😊Originally posted by Nugmo View PostYeah I understand that. I figured it would be a pretty good machine given the rave reviews of thew 500 & 700. I also think it's a lot more attractive so would win more wife points. It's a in difficult bracket tho, and the 500 is a real viable competitor of the 600 for 90% of users. I also found it interesting that not many of the re-sellers of the 600 actually had spent much time on the machine, I guess it's fairly new but it would have been good to get first hand feedback.
May end up going a 500 or pull the trigger on the 600! Who knows, if there's a sale on the 700 that becomes a option too! Gets a bit hazy after a while.
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When most of the ECM machines for instance are on par or cheaper here than in the USA, my "well tuned value judgement" radar does go off.Originally posted by 338 View PostCafeLotta, $250 really is bugger all difference when you compare distance to ship (Italy to UK is one truck, about the distance from Brisbane to Melbourne), C tick compliance, offering backup support to a tiny user base over a continent the size of Europe or USA, etc, etc. $250 a unit gets eaten up very quickly and there are substantially different requirements thrust upon the importer of record than an individual importer.
That said I understand if your well tuned value judgement considers the 7% difference beyond the pale.
ECM is often referred to as a sister company to Profitec.
The other thing to bear in mind is that warranty periods in the USA are often double or longer than the 1 year warranties we usually get here. That's extra dollar value that we are denied. I've also noticed extras like matching naked portafilters are rarely included here whereas overseas they're often included.Last edited by CafeLotta; 21 November 2018, 11:32 AM.
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Yeah I understand that. I figured it would be a pretty good machine given the rave reviews of thew 500 & 700. I also think it's a lot more attractive so would win more wife points. It's a in difficult bracket tho, and the 500 is a real viable competitor of the 600 for 90% of users. I also found it interesting that not many of the re-sellers of the 600 actually had spent much time on the machine, I guess it's fairly new but it would have been good to get first hand feedback.
May end up going a 500 or pull the trigger on the 600! Who knows, if there's a sale on the 700 that becomes a option too! Gets a bit hazy after a while.
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CafeLotta, $250 really is bugger all difference when you compare distance to ship (Italy to UK is one truck, about the distance from Brisbane to Melbourne), C tick compliance, offering backup support to a tiny user base over a continent the size of Europe or USA, etc, etc. $250 a unit gets eaten up very quickly and there are substantially different requirements thrust upon the importer of record than an individual importer.
That said I understand if your well tuned value judgement considers the 7% difference beyond the pale.
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