Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

ECM Synchronika or something else for $4k ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    In simple terms...

    "a substance in the gas phase at a temperature lower than its critical temperature, which means that the vapor can be condensed to a liquid by increasing the pressure on it without reducing the temperature."

    Mal.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Dimal View Post
      In simple terms...

      "a substance in the gas phase at a temperature lower than its critical temperature,

      Mal.
      So in the situation being discussed, there is no difference between gas and vapour.

      A coffee machine boiler operates at temperatures well below the critical point (about 375 oC at 22 MPa for water).
      Last edited by Lyrebird; 29 August 2018, 08:50 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Sounds like you're the master mate, so I'll defer to you...

        Mal.

        Comment


        • #19
          Damn this is getting way too techyyy fellas.

          My short list is Pro 600 Pro 700 and Synchronika because of the high steam pressure and I’m leaning towards Pro 600 for the smaller size and turning valves.
          The YouTube vid of the Pro 600 at the factory is impressive.
          Hurry ye up me tax return !
          GR

          Comment


          • #20
            Where abouts do you live? If in Perth you can come have a play on my synkronika and atom.

            After I went through it all I went for the synkronika. Just what I thought best suited me. Still love it.

            Comment


            • #21
              Thanks for the invitation but I’m about 3000 kms away so have to pass.

              On another note though, have you looked into getting your synchronika modified for the higher pressure? I know in the US you can get mod kits.

              Comment


              • #22
                Got to have a look and play with a Profitec Pro 700 and the full range of the new Bezerra models.

                Impressions.

                The Pro 700 was polished more than anything else in the store, it really was a beautiful machine. The steam on the new version, not that I compared it to the old, was very impressive. However looking back, I'm not sure if it was set on the maximum temperature or not.
                It was also very quiet. Had excellent cup clearance and in general was finished off really nicely.

                The geek in me bought the Bezzera Duo DE however. The steam pressure on this was indistinguishable to that of the Pro 700. And quite frankly coming from my Breville BES920 was like comparing a kettle to a steam locomotive!
                Whilst it's rotary pump is relatively quite, it was obviously louder than the Profitec.
                The screen looked great, easy to use as were the buttons. The levers also felt nice, and I do love the wood PF handles and levers.

                So I know my choice wouldn't be what the purist would choose, and it is quite different to the Synchonika I thought I was buying. But I'm happy to buck the trend a little.

                I've only had the machine for a couple days, and unfortunately not had much time to make coffees. Hopefully this weekend that will change.


                For anyone interested, here is my rationale for buying such a machine.

                LCD - This concerned me early on. Would this part be available in 10 years if it needed replacing? Would it be durable at all?
                I figured there are a few machines already using this screen, including the yet unreleased Rocket R9. I'll be surprised if a few other manufacturers don't jump on the wagon also. But chances are the LCD is both durable and likely to be available for some time to come. Our thermomix has a touch screen in a similar hot steamy environment, and gets much more use than the coffee machine likely will.
                A little speculative I know, but that's all I can be at this time.

                Proprietary group head - Wasn't sure I liked moving away from the traditional e61 design, however it does seem like a logical progression. I wonder if Faema might have used this idea instead of thermosyphon if it was available 60 years ago ? The design by Bezzera seems smart, easy to work on and possibly quicker to heat. If nothing, it uses less water ( none of course).

                Volumetric buttons not lever - For me I'd rather press a button and concentrate on steaming milk. Plus I like the repeat-ability it offers.


                The only real complaint I have at this time is the cup clearance is quite small, and my wife's bodum glasses don't fit under it!! I don't like them, but it was a little embarrassing showing the nice expensive new toy, that we now have to buy new cups for...
                Oh, forgot to mention, the other thing I'm not mad on are the ridged baskets. A real pain with my 58.5mm tamper. Not to mention trying to get them out to clean.
                Luckily I already have a Pullman basket.

                I'll likely start a new thread in a couple months with updates and impressions.

                Thanks again for everyone's input and thoughts.

                Cheers
                Jamie
                Last edited by wilsonj; 1 September 2018, 01:41 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Grillsy View Post
                  Thanks for the invitation but I’m about 3000 kms away so have to pass.

                  On another note though, have you looked into getting your synchronika modified for the higher pressure? I know in the US you can get mod kits.
                  I think for the 2-400 it might cost I can’t see the value in it tbh.

                  Sure it’s no where near a Linea mini but for home use we aren’t steaming a whole lot of milk. Mainly for us we use a 350ml motta jug when we do steam milk and only bring out the 500ml when guests come over. It doesn’t struggle at the 500ml just a bit slow.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Beautiful setup Jamie...

                    Nothing wrong with the Bezzera propriety Group. It has been around for many years and some of the sweetest shots I've ever had were through one of these, albeit on a much older and less salubrious looking machine.

                    Much wonderful coffee ahead of you...

                    Mal.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Dimal View Post
                      Beautiful setup Jamie...

                      Nothing wrong with the Bezzera propriety Group. It has been around for many years and some of the sweetest shots I've ever had were through one of these, albeit on a much older and less salubrious looking machine.

                      Much wonderful coffee ahead of you...

                      Mal.
                      Hi Mal,

                      Thank you so much. I'm really looking forward to playing with it over the weekend. Steaming is real fun!

                      Cheers
                      Jamie

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by wilsonj View Post
                        Hi,

                        I'm in the market for a new machine. Currently I have a Breville BES920, which I have had a couple months, but the upgrade bug has bitten and I want something more.

                        I've just upgraded my grinder to a Eureka Atom, which I'm quite happy with also.

                        We make around 4-6 milk based drinks a day.

                        For a while I've really liked the ECM Synchronika for the following reasons.

                        1. Nicely made
                        2. PID with timer
                        3. Great steam on the latest version
                        4. Good size
                        5. Levers for steam and hot water. (Not that I've had much experience with either, but I prefer the idea of a lever over a knob)
                        6. Gauges up high
                        7. Can be plumbed and comes with kit.

                        For around the $4k mark this seems to be the best fit. However as I probably won't have the luxury of upgrading again for quite some time, I wonder if stretching the budget a little further might get me something more..

                        Other machines I have considered are the LM Linea Mini, or a second hand GS3, however they are hard to come by at a good price and the maintenance on something like that concerns me. I live in country SA, so it will not be a easy task to get a machine serviced. I'm hoping I could maintain the synchronika mostly myself.

                        The LM Mini seems like a nice choice too, however it is very light on features and wonder if it really offers any real world advantage over a synchonika, other than the name. And it is ~$1k more...

                        So, is there anything else I should consider ? Profitec pro700 ( basically the same but with knobs) Saves a few hundred $$.

                        Cheers
                        Jamie
                        I think it is a load of money already and more isn't always better.

                        4K should get you a good choice of top machines from ECM, Profitec and Rocket all good makes.

                        I paid 2.4k for a single boiler Wega Mini Nova Classic.

                        They all make coffee pretty much the same although dual boilers are easier to use but are more complex and expensive.

                        If you wouldn't be happy with the ECM Synchronika, I would be very surprised but I could say the same about a lot of machines. These machines from leading makers are all excellent to amazing.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Big congrats from me as well Jamie. I bet you have had a great weekend with your new toy. Watch out for new the coffee machine over caffeinated syndrome !!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by wattgn View Post
                            I think it is a load of money already and more isn't always better.

                            4K should get you a good choice of top machines from ECM, Profitec and Rocket all good makes.

                            I paid 2.4k for a single boiler Wega Mini Nova Classic.

                            They all make coffee pretty much the same although dual boilers are easier to use but are more complex and expensive.

                            If you wouldn't be happy with the ECM Synchronika, I would be very surprised but I could say the same about a lot of machines. These machines from leading makers are all excellent to amazing.

                            Yes, it is a load of money to spend on a coffee machine. Easy to lose site of that. And I think you are right, all the machines at this price point will be excellent, it's just the finer details/features.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Grillsy View Post
                              Big congrats from me as well Jamie. I bet you have had a great weekend with your new toy. Watch out for new the coffee machine over caffeinated syndrome !!
                              Thanks Grillsy,

                              Love the machine, not mad about the coffee I've made so far though!! The milk steaming is a real challenge. I've been trying to steam ~400ml of milk in a 900ml jug at full pressure. The machine doesn't have a problem in doing this, however it is next to impossible for me to get 2 consistent milk drinks from it. ( have to say I can over stretch 400ml of milk quicker than I could stretch and fold 200ml with the old machine!)

                              And latte art looks more like pelican poop, or the latte ends up a flat white. Neither ideal.
                              I might back the pressure off and try steaming smaller amounts in a smaller jug until I get a little more comfortable with it.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by wilsonj View Post
                                And latte art looks more like pelican poop, or the latte ends up a flat white.
                                Aha, maybe you should have gone for the Profitec Pro 700 or Synchronika then for the extra steam P!!
                                Half kidding. Just keep practicing. Grab a few Litres of water with dishwashing liquid added and use that for milk practice.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X