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Profitec Pro 700 - simultaneous heating

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  • Profitec Pro 700 - simultaneous heating

    Hi All

    splashed out and shouted my wife and I a Profitec Pro 700 a couple of months ago. Nice machine that looks to be very well constructed inside. Pulls some very nice shots, even with a relative newbie at the helm. But I have been very disappointed with the steaming ability, especially when trying to texture milk at the same time as pulling a shot, pressure will often drop to nearly 0.5 bar pressure making keeping a decent roll on the milk very difficult. I have had the machine back to the supplier here in NZ and they have tested it beside a new machine and said it is performing the same, disappointing.
    So anyway I would like to try running it in the simultaneous heating mode (luckily still available on NZ machines) to see how it performs then. All the reading I have done suggests that I will need a 15amp circuit to do this safely. But although I’m no electrician I understand some basics and by my calculations amps=watts/volts which would mean 2600w heating/240 volts = 10.8 amps, therefore a standard circuit would suffice ?
    I also have the Pro 700 connected to a TP-link HS110 smart wifi switch which has a stated 10amp max, but I imagine this has a little head room and should also have overdraw protection that would mitigate any risk to over draw on the circuit ?

    Thanks for any advice.

  • #2
    You're basically right but the GPO is 10A max too. Depending on the actual voltage available at the outlet it may be higher than 10.8A.
    I wouldn't count on the wifi switch lasting a long time, or even at all. Worst case of it causes a for and the insurance company finds out they won't pay. I would strongly recommend not using the wifi switch at all with this set up and only ever have the machine on when you are in the same room and will be home (and awake) for 4 hours after turning the machine off at the GPO. If this solves your steaming issues and you want to leave it like that get an electrician to put a 15A GPO in for you. Don't use the wifi switch on the 15A setup.

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    • #3
      Perhaps look into the steam upgrade kit that was released recently. Takes the pressure up to 2Bar. I have a feeling it was only Pro 700's that were built late 2018 had this, so yours may have been an older build. There's a fair bit of info on the home barista forums. https://clivecoffee.com/products/pro...-valve-upgrade
      Last edited by Javaphile; 16 February 2019, 01:27 AM.

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      • #4
        An extra $200 USD to upgrade an near $4k machine to perform the way it should have been expected to originally? Wow.

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        • #5
          Thanks for the reply’s.
          Think trying the upgrade PID sounds like the easiest route so I can keep using the WIFI switch. Just a bumper having to invest more money in an already expensive machine, especially since I mostly drink espresso, have to keep the misses happy with her lattes though ��

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          • #6
            My previous machine was a Profitec Pro 700 and I experienced no issues with simultaneous steaming and extraction. Your experience doesn’t sound kosher... I’m disappointed with the supplier!

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            • #7
              Thinking more on this it makes no sense why pulling a shot should make any difference to steam pressure. There are two boilers, the brew boiler drives brew water through the group head using the rotary pump whereas the steam boiler is only driven by the pressure cooker effect with pressure exceeding notmal atmospheric pressure.

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              • #8
                Also be aware that here in Australia, the upgraded PID for higher steam temps, does NOT have the ability to heat both boilers at the same time. Not sure why they removed it, but worth checking if its something you intend doing in the future .
                This is on the ECM Synchronika , (different brand, almost same machine internally) .
                To me it sounds like there are other issues, never had a problem with the steam power on standard Pro700 or Synchronika

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                • #9
                  Profitec Pro 700 - simultaneous heating

                  Originally posted by kofekitt View Post
                  To me it sounds like there are other issues, never had a problem with the steam power on standard Pro700 or Synchronika
                  Agreed, the standard Pro700 that has been on the market for 4-5 years is a strong steamer.

                  The late 2018 revision is of course even more powerful, but the user shouldn’t be seeing these issues with the original model either.

                  There’s either something wrong with this particular unit or the method of operation.

                  OP: can you describe the sequence in which you are using the machine.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kwantfm View Post
                    Thinking more on this it makes no sense why pulling a shot should make any difference to steam pressure. There are two boilers, the brew boiler drives brew water through the group head using the rotary pump whereas the steam boiler is only driven by the pressure cooker effect with pressure exceeding notmal atmospheric pressure.
                    The reason that pulling a shot at the same time makes a difference is because when the brew boiler drops in temp as the shot is pulled it then takes priority on reheating, which means the steam boiler heater element is not in use for the time the shot is pulled and the reheating of the brew boiler takes place, allowing the steam boiler temp and therefore pressure to drop off. At least this is the case with the machine in the low current draw mode, as it sounds like is enforced on the AU models and as the machine is supplied here in NZ. Yes I can switch it to simultaneous heating, high current draw mode but I will need to upgrade to a 15amp socket/circuit.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by herzog View Post
                      Agreed, the standard Pro700 that has been on the market for 4-5 years is a strong steamer.

                      The late 2018 revision is of course even more powerful, but the user shouldn’t be seeing these issues with the original model either.

                      There’s either something wrong with this particular unit or the method of operation.

                      OP: can you describe the sequence in which you are using the machine.
                      My sequence is as follows

                      warm 1 cup with water from water wand until steam boiler gets a small top up from pump to minimise risk of refill during steaming
                      warm other cup with water through grouphead and basket to even some temps out
                      grind, distribute, tamp coffee, by then the boilers are back up to temp
                      pull first double shot 27-30 seconds
                      rinse filter under brew group, wipe clean, dry and then repeat grind, distribute, tamp
                      check brew boiler is back up to temp
                      purge condensation from steam wand
                      start second cups shot and then immediately start stretching milk
                      stop shot at 27-30 seconds, milk stretch at about 30deg C max then heat to 60deg C , that’s where me and the missus like it.

                      By the time I am finishing the steaming the steam boiler will often be down between 0.5 bar and 0.7 bar, which makes it hard to keep a good roll on for nice micro foam integration.

                      please let me know if any of these steps are causing the low pressure issue. Other than having to steam either side of pulling the shot as to me that is not an answer on a high end double boiler machine. My previous Breville DB was a better steamer, but the Pro 700 is far better at espresso.

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                      • #12
                        Profitec Pro 700 - simultaneous heating

                        Originally posted by WindAddict View Post
                        My sequence is as follows

                        warm 1 cup with water from water wand until steam boiler gets a small top up from pump to minimise ri
                        There it is. That’s what I was thinking you would say.

                        This is very likely to be the issue. Pulling water from the water wand to the point that it triggers a top up is absolutely kryptonite for boiler pressure.

                        The water coming into the boiler is cold and just kills it.


                        If you’re going to do this before steaming, you should wait 2-3 minutes for the boiler to properly recover.
                        Last edited by herzog; 18 February 2019, 08:46 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Try this as an experiment:

                          With your machine having been fully heated for some time, without doing anything else, just perform the steaming process.

                          Your initial steam boiler temp should be reading around 126C before you start.

                          If this works ok and you can keep a roll on with a half full 600ML jug, then that’s how your machine should be working.


                          If that still fails then you have got something wrong with your machine.

                          Note you don’t need to waste milk to do this test. Just use water with a drop of dishwashing liquid, as it behaves the same and is a great way to practice or simulate without wastage.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by herzog View Post
                            Try this as an experiment:

                            With your machine having been fully heated for some time, without doing anything else, just perform the steaming process.

                            Your initial steam boiler temp should be reading around 126C before you start.

                            If this works ok and you can keep a roll on with a half full 600ML jug, then that’s how your machine should be working.


                            If that still fails then you have got something wrong with your machine.

                            Note you don’t need to waste milk to do this test. Just use water with a drop of dishwashing liquid, as it behaves the same and is a great way to practice or simulate without wastage.
                            I have had no issues with my Pro 700 steaming capability, it handles busy family functions with ease!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by herzog View Post
                              There it is. That’s what I was thinking you would say.

                              This is very likely to be the issue. Pulling water from the water wand to the point that it triggers a top up is absolutely kryptonite for boiler pressure.

                              The water coming into the boiler is cold and just kills it.


                              If you’re going to do this before steaming, you should wait 2-3 minutes for the boiler to properly recover.
                              Sorry my process description was a little lacking. I use the water wand to warm cups as soon as I get up in the morning and usually don’t start my shot pulling for about 15min after that. So the boiler has recovered well.
                              Machine is going back in on Thursday for another check over.

                              Thanks for suggestions though.

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