Nice choices Kay. Sounds like you new cafe would pass my walkin "snoobb's" test and I'd enjoy a shot or two at your establishment.
Pls do your own further research but I'd strongly suggest - as it appears you will 'own your equipment' to get your water tested and install the necessary treatment that matches or exceeds the stated LM standard.
Your LM will work better for longer with less replacement parts required short or long term.
And your coffee Will Taste Better for it as a side bonus!
BTW Dont get sidetracked by 'Industry Standard' filtration. If your in a hard water area this commercial coffee std wont likely suffice.
GL with your new venture.
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La Marzocco Linea Classic or Kees Van Der Westen Mirage for office?
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First of thank you for your comments and we bougth the machines. I want to share our machine lisf for you guys and maybe you wanna say something about it.
La Marzocco ** 90 3 Group
Mahlkönig E65S GBW Coffee Grinder
Mahlkönig EK43S Coffee Grinder
Moccamaster Thermoserve TS 085/A
VITAMIX The Quite One Bar Blender
Marco MIX Boiler T8 with Filter
We spend a good money on those machines as you can guess, but I'm sure quality will be amazing.
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You may want to start a new thread so people can see your topic.Originally posted by coffeeberkay View PostHello everyone. We are about to open our cafe bussines probably in january 2022. I have been keep searching for espresso machines and its hard to choose actualy.
Im wondering is anyone of you guys have any experince on 2 brands and models. One of is La marzocco KB90 and other is Kees Van Der Westen Spirit Duette.
We want to buy high quality ones and dont wanna have problem with quality and machine performance( mainterance issues)
Also for grinder we are looking Eureka Helios 80 and Mahlkönig E65 S GBW. So if you know something about thoose models im looking for rewievs.
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Both the Spirit and KB90 are good machines, the straight in portafilters on the KB90 are very nice to use, and the spirit looks great. Both are multiboiler machines and have good temperature stability, and will keep up with a heavy workload. I suspect from what ive seen so far the the KB90 will become more expensive to maintain as it gets older, any leaks around the top of the group heads will cause a lot of issues. On the other side spirit parts are not cheap. If i was opening a cafe id go with a linea classic as being the best choice on quality and reliability, parts are common and relatively cheap and they will last for 20 years if looked after.
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I had a Helios and it was freaking awesome. Just kind of overkill for my home coffee island! Highly recommended. Don't know about the other machines.
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Hello everyone. We are about to open our cafe bussines probably in january 2022. I have been keep searching for espresso machines and its hard to choose actualy.
Im wondering is anyone of you guys have any experince on 2 brands and models. One of is La marzocco KB90 and other is Kees Van Der Westen Spirit Duette.
We want to buy high quality ones and dont wanna have problem with quality and machine performance( mainterance issues)
Also for grinder we are looking Eureka Helios 80 and Mahlkönig E65 S GBW. So if you know something about thoose models im looking for rewievs.
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Ok guys, that I'd better come back and close the thread off. Ended up going the (risky but fancy option!) re-furb'd Marzocco Linea Classic 3 group and new Mazzer Super Jolly (electric). It got installed the other day and then fine tuned by the coffee roaster guy thats going to be supplying us initially. So far, everything is running very well and we're getting some great coffees out of it. There is a bit of variability in the Mazzer at the moment, hopefully it settles down once bedded in.
Cheers for all your help.Last edited by chocdog; 31 July 2019, 06:54 PM.
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For your second hand options, consider that electrical and mechanical components generally have a limited life (hours of use). So if you're looking at a commercial that has been on 24/7 for, say 5 years, then having to replace a board, for example, in the short term shouldn't come as a complete surprise. Also, and possibly a bigger issue, if the water filtration over the life of the machine hasn't been perfect, then scale will cause issues with blockages and corrosion. So if at all possible find out the machines history. If you don't know the history, then extended warranty is an insurance policy but will also come at a price.
As long as you're aware of the possible costs of rectification and you add that risk to the initial buy price and still come up with a overall deal that you're happy with, I say go for it. You might be lucky and have years of trouble free use. But if you do need to replace an expensive component in, say 12 months, then hopefully you'll be able to afford it. I think bottom line with second hand purchases of commercial machines is that you don't spend your whole budget on the initial purchase. Leave yourself a contingency fund.
If you want to have a look at a Lelit Giulietta in Melbourne that's easy to arrange. PM sent!
charlie
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Thanks Charlie. The machine is coming with a only 3 month warranty. I could perhaps negotiate a longer period (or include it for extra). Based on your experience do you think 3 months is too short?
And thanks for the link to the Lelit Giulietta and Profitec Pro T64 grinder combo you guys carry and recommend. Appreciate the recommendation - definitely food for though. I haven't heard of Lelit - but there is a lot of stuff I dont know about! Shame you are not in Melbourne so I could come and kick the tyres. I’ve bought some stuff from you over the years, but think it would be a struggle to make this level of purchase from a non-Melb based mob. But I’ll definitely have a think about it.
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Thank you very much Tampit. That’s extremely helpful info and experience for us. Especially the feedback about “tolerance for Barista snafus”. Exactly what I wanted to find out.
Based you that, and my weekend of internetting (unfortunately the commercial machines don’t really get discussed much on forums….), the Linea is looking to be the top of the list.
Again, cheers!
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Unless you know the condition of a second hand machine, it's a risk. Think lime scale damage or a pin hole leaking boiler ... So go in eyes open and/or get a long warranty!
With your budget, you can also go new and get a temperature stable, easy to live with E61 HX commercial and T64 office coffee machine.
charlie
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FWIW, the original Linea (not the Linea Mini) is probably the best machine I know of for a fuss free business or cafe. Half a dozen of my friends have them in cafes I helped set up over the years and they have been pumping a high volume of shots out trouble free for extended periods. They are also faster to recover than almost any other machine I know of - try 403 shots in just under three hours (from the actual till receipts) without breaking a sweat (unlike the barista at the time - she deserved every cent of her bonus!). The main other advantage of a Linea is the tremendous shot power which gives it a pretty wide tolerance for "Barista snafus". Not zero maintenance, however largely fuss free and very easy to keep clean.
For "non specialty coffee cafes" I would always a Mazzer Major grinder. That will give as good a coffee as a majority of CS aficionados can achieve at home under far less stressful conditions - and in a high volume environment for a decade or so.
For home use - totally different recommendation from me. To be balanced about the subject, a really good home setup (& barista) will have an edge in coffee quality, however it cannot possibly achieve anything like the volume or the low maintenance.
Just my two cents.
TampIt
PS: Of course, the Linea takes standard baskets - made by VST. Says it all about the quality really (FYI, LM sponsored the VST research and now use the results of their support).
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Many thanks for the input ninja - especially about the Atom. I've got no experience with the Atom but it was getting a good recommendation (not the Jolly though - believe it can be quite inconsistent). I think your thinking of the Linea Mini - which is small. The Linea Classic is a full size machine and comes with LMs proprietary saturated group.
I agree, the Mirage does look brilliant. But am struggling to work out what the catch is. Surely a 2nd hand machine in appropriate condition cant be had for that sort of money?!
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