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  • Profitec Pro 700 front external drain port

    Just bought a profitec pro 700 and still getting used to it. Big upgrade over the breville!

    Is it normal for it to periodially drip every now and then (just like a single drop).. maybe 10mins or so if the machine is sitting idle?
    Last edited by Cats; 10 November 2019, 05:07 PM.

  • #2
    No, I don't think so.

    Have a chat with who you bought it from.

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes it is quite normal - I have a 700 and the external drain produces a drop every so often. It is the collected steam and boiler hot water etc from inside the machine. I read somewhere that many Italian espresso machines allow this to remain inside the machine but the German engineers who designed the Profitec captured it all and drained it safely into the drip tray to avoid condensation inside the machine.

      It is a feature - not a bug!

      Enjoy your Profitec 700 - they are superb machines.

      Comment


      • #4
        Plane24 thanks!! What im concerned about is rusting the powder coated steel section that is exposed between the lip on the front panel and the drip tray.
        Do you find condensation/wayward drips from either the 3way valve or the vacume valve drip manage to find their way there?

        It usually looks reasonably dry but you can tell moisture condenses there either from the steam at startup or because water is lipping around the bottom bent edge of the front panel.

        https://ibb.co/gFqN12C

        My drip tray is fully in and touching the chassis so there is no gap but moisture still manages to get in to some extent leaving a watermark.
        Given this feels like its normal.. as there seems to be an obvious opening and no way to stop steam condensing here, im wondering why they didnt make this stainless steel.
        Do you have this? Will it rust over time? How long have you had yours?

        To be clear, its not soaking wet, just an amount of moisture leaving a feint watermark and the drips that sit on the top of the water tray after initial heat up dont help

        Comment


        • #5
          Cats

          I have had my Profitec 700 for two years. There is no sign of any watermarking on mine. The drips of condensation fall straight through the square cutout in the drip tray cover (which is obviously put there for that purpose). The drips do not hit the stainless steel lip at all. Even if moisture were to get on to the powder coated steel section below and behind the lip I would expect it to evaporate quickly given the machine is always warm. When I touched the powder coated section you are concerned about it was gently warm and bone dry.

          I have taken a video which I will try to upload - it shows a couple of drips forming and then falling as I described above.

          If yours does something different then you may need to contact your dealer.

          Cheers
          Paul

          Comment


          • #6
            Cats

            Looking at your photo I wonder whether the mark you refer to might well have been on the label before it went on the machine?

            Here is a link to the short video I took of water drops:

            https://share.icloud.com/photos/0iDu...Frenchs_Forest

            Cheers
            Paul

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Paul, the watermark wasnt there orignally, as i can spray and wipe it off, and it comes back depending on what occurs, condensation or splashes etc.
              The moisture is coming at startup i think?
              The steam generated when the steam boiler heats up causes condensation in the whole region including the chassis.
              As you said, it is warm to touch so it probably dries.
              If you have any moisture/watermarks on the chassis it is far easier to see under a torch or phone flash.
              At this point i think mine is operating just like everyone else's. If there is any moisture people simply arent looking for it, but im pretty sure it's going to be there.
              I found putting paper towel on startup will prevent the initial contensation.
              The gap between the chassis and the drip tray allows water to run down it before it dries

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Cats

                I have done some tests and I think I may have a possible explanation. First thing to note is that my wife and I only drink long black coffees. So we rarely use the steam wand. This made me wonder whether that might be an issue.

                So this morning I waited while the 700 came up to working temperature and then very carefully checked the black panel using a torch and tissue paper. It was absolutely bone dry. So then I replaced the drip tray and turned on the steam wand with the steam shooting into the drip tray. NaturalLy I got condensation of the cooler parts of the stainless steel face plate of the 700 (around the dial etc) and lots in the drip tray area itself including the stainless steel lip at the bottom of the face plate where it hangs over the drip tray. But when I removed the drip tray there was condensation of the black powder-coated panel behind the drip tray. Which is what I believe you have seen.

                I just checked now and in the time it has taken to type this the moisture on the black panel has evaporated.

                So I wonder whether the moisture you are seeing is coming from the steam wand?

                Cheers
                Paul

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Paul,

                  Its definitly not the steam wand, this is only during startup.
                  As the steam boiler hits maybe 96-100C steam and condensation come out of the vacuum discharge valve until you hear it abbruptly shutoff at 100C (as designed). The condensation heats a radius of around 5cm of the surface around the discharge nozzel. If you look under the lip at this point in the process there are little beads of moisture under the lip on the chassis.
                  I cannot think that anyone elses is behaving differently here, the steam is pretty much going to go everywhere intil the valve shuts off, which doesnt happen until 100C.

                  Does yours have steam coming out at startup?
                  Of course, if you have the steam boiler switched off this wont happen, as its strictly associated with the steam boiler in the last few degrees of heatup before the vaccume valve seals at 100C.

                  Ive found if you block the gap under the lip, the steam fogs up as far as the pressure gauges.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Paul, this references what i believe the machine is doing:
                    https://coffeetechniciansguild.org/b...vacuum-breaker

                    "When heating, this allows hot expanding air to escape until it is replaced by true steam pressure."

                    On startup hot hair will mimic steam, giving only a short blast of hot air after which the unit will heat normally.

                    Id be very interested if you could have a look at that point in the startup if you get condensation/hot air/steam for a few seconds and then you will hear the breaker engage (a quiet little 'thuppp' sound then no more steam)

                    Edit: this post describes it too
                    https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/394...acuum-breaker/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Cats

                      Like you I do get some steam and a few drops of water during warmup which stop with a click once the temperature gets to 100C and the valve closes. There is naturally some condensation from the steam around the outlet which evaporates fairly quickly. I have never removed the drip tray at that point to check but will try to do so tomorrow and let you know what I find. Based on my test using the steam wand I would expect there will be some condensation - the steam is under pressure of course.

                      On my machine the black area looks to be powder coated (not simply painted) and any condensation evaporates quickly. The steam is by definition distilled water and so is any condensation. Profitec and ECM have a well deserved reputation for German engineering, design and high quality manufacture so I am confident this has been thoroughly considered and tested over many years.

                      I would encourage you to relax and stop worrying about it. Just enjoy you new machine and the great coffee it’s producing.

                      Regards
                      Paul

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I was wondering if it was powdercoated but i dont know what to look for in the differences between paint and powdercoating (im aware of the differences in process but not what to look for in the end product)
                        The powdercoated chassis on the Syncronika is distinct and also called out in the marketing material

                        I do agree with you though, im probably overthinking but you know how it is with things you invest in, you want to do everything you can to ensure they last as long as youd like them to.

                        You dont need to remove the drip tray (necessarily) after the steam at startup you will see some condensatipn droplets if you shine a light in between the lip and the drip tray (under the discharge vent)

                        I am fairly certain at this point everyone's machine is behaving the same, and i wish they'd made it stainless steel but i guess if yours is also condensing there and you have no wear in the powdercoat then its a non issue

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi Cats and Paul,

                          Just wanted to let you know that rust in this area is a justified concern - we also have a Profitec Pro 700 (almost 2 years old now) and some rust has developed in this area. We just had this checked by our servicer, and unfortunately it's not something covered by warranty. Fortunately it is isolated to this spot and is not affecting the working of the machine, so we just need to keep it dry.

                          We use both the steam wand and hot water wand regularly (hot water for rinsing portafilters). Normally we would wipe the machine down at least daily but we will have to increase this. If we had noticed water obviously trickling down behind the drip tray we would clean that. Generally, we have noticed that water beads easily on the drip tray under the valve and up under the lip, and guess that this is trickling down at times (possibly also after we have cleaned, as the machine is cooling).

                          It's good to be aware of this as a potential issue before any rust develops. This is a bit of a design flaw in an otherwise good machine.

                          Hope you're enjoying your coffee!

                          Spoon

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Spoon, thanks for confirming this!! Sometimes i wonder if im just looking for problems but with an engineering hat on it's difficult to overlook things that make you go hmmmm.

                            I have been monitoring how it works in the time since the inital post, the water that appears there is virtually entirely from the initial steam boiler heatup phase before the valve is engaged, when steam is venting out the drain port.

                            I have found if you run a microfibre cloth in the gap between the lip and the drip tray, you can dry the beads of water before they have time to cool and run down significantly.

                            This isn't necessarily perfect but i think it greatly minimises the chance of rust as you aren't waiting for the water to dry and evaoprate, which depending on ambient temps can take a while (it is also not well exposed to the air and so on).

                            Aside from the initial heatup, the only times you can get water there are
                            - if the driptray is too full and water splashes out of when discharging
                            -depending on how you operate the discharge valve..by this i mean if you do a water backflush and the shower screen has been dried/wiped with paper towel, i have found it will consistently discharge more agressively, than if the shower screen is wet, where all the diacharge will go straight down.

                            The other scenario is essentially if you have any water sitting on the driptray at the back, when you add additional water to it, this will push the water over the back edge, so you need to ensure that your drip tray is dry.

                            The steam want itself and nornal operation dont cause any issues that i can tell, i purge steam into a towel, and as long as you manage the discharge nozzel as described above, you can get some fairly clean usage out of it.

                            Mind you, this is all based on 6 months of use, i don't know how long rust took to form on yours, and im hoping to never see it on mine.

                            Another thing i have done seal anywhere i saw exposed metal on the front of the frame and paint over with black nailpolish, this helps to seal and protect the frame against moisture.

                            ..i really wish they'd just gone with stainless steel for the frame and then everything would be much simpler

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Cats,

                              Thank you for these tips - they are very helpful! The nail polish trick sounds good too - some of the enamel has blistered off where the rust is so I will mention this idea to my husband and see what he thinks. I believe that the servicer put a water-repellant on there but I don't know how long that will last.

                              I agree with you - it would've been good if they'd used stainless steel for the frame! We are very annoyed that this has happened.

                              Spoon

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