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  • GS3 or R Nine One

    Which of these two fantastic machines would you buy:
    La Marzocco GS3mp
    Rocket R Nine One

    I am planning to upgrade from the Rocket Giotto Evoluzion Giotto (had it for 8 years) and a Mazzer Mini (moving to the Mahlkonig E65S).

    Like other comments I feel that the GS3mp carries more pride of ownership whilst the Rocket R Nine One carries more technology.

    Like the idea of playing with pressure profiling and the rocket looks like the best option but just can't rule the gs3 out. Always wanted a LM.

    Really liked the Slayer but the wife won't let me plumb it in.

    Thoughts and comments appreciated.

  • #2
    Like you, I always dreamed of owning an LM, but I went and played around with the GS3 conical valve paddle and found it just too hard to use for pressure profiling in any meaningful sense. I don't think that LM even designed it to do that. I don't know what the R9 One is actually like in the metal, but on paper it looks more fully featured. Personally, if I were looking at spending that much, I'd be tempted to ask Rick Bond if he could put together a paddle-actuated gear pump machine from the linea mini for the price of the GS3. I've asked him and he reckons it's do-able. Or, better still, get Rick to do that to a GS3 for you. Actually, all of these machines will dump the pressure when you stop the pump, so if you want to be able to pressure profile with a blooming phase, that might be another thing that you ask Rick to mod for you. If we're talking about a solenoid valve, I reckon he would be able to rig something like a button that you hold down to bypass it. You probably want a button that you have to hold down so that the default position is that the valve works as normal and you can't accidentally leave it turned off.

    Comment


    • #3
      By all accounts the R Nine One is proving to be best in class and smashing all other pressure profilers in this category.

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      • #4
        If you're serious about pressure/flow profiling you'd have to consider the Decent DE1+ v1.3

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        • #5
          Originally posted by luca View Post
          I'd be tempted to ask Rick Bond if he could put together a paddle-actuated gear pump machine from the linea mini for the price of the GS3. I've asked him and he reckons it's do-able. Or, better still, get Rick to do that to a GS3 for you.
          He read your mind Luca. LM's current GS3 is not the machine I'd own. My opinion FWIW, is that it's somewhat of a con. The Strada parts bin was used to create something people thought they wanted. In reality, I suspect that the main reason was that the previous paddle mechanism chewed through o-rings. I owned one and never managed 12 months without having to replace them. Enter the conical valve which will go a few years of home use without leaking but for pressure profiling, it's 2/10 and there is no way of repeating a good shot. I personally think that the gauge sitting up there on top of the paddle also looks ridiculous.

          Some years ago, Rick made an amazing bread board machine with a variable speed pump and a Synesso boiler and it was (as most of his stuff is) sheer brilliance. This tech is going into his GS3 and it's sorely tempting in that it works and I have no doubt that his reborn pressure profiling machine will look incredible as well. Perhaps LM might look and actually learn something.

          I'm lucky to have been able to indulge my passion with quite a few different home machines amongst which were a GS3 MP (good, but irritating due to the seal issues), 2 x Slayer (The first one was possessed and never managed 3 months without failing- ultimately replaced by the manufacturer). The second was moved on while I played with a restored and pimped vintage leva (currently in storage but to be revisited some day). An early Decent was in amongst them as well (good concept, but way too Sunbeam for me- costs $5k, looks appliance for mine). I currently have an R NINE one and it's streets ahead of any of my previous machines.

          I loved the design of the Slayer but the Rocket is all over it for reliability, repeatability and quality in the cup. Mine looks pretty amazing too after Rick was given carte blanche to go nuts on custom work for it.
          Last edited by Caffeinator; 19th February 2020, 09:07 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yeah, when I visited lm to try out the gs3, the explanation they gave for the new conical valve was the longevity of the seals, not pressure profiling.

            FWIW, I have and quite like the decent. It does a bunch of stuff that nothing else does, and which I use all the time.

            Comment


            • #7
              The Crem One that recently came out may be worth noting. It's half the price of the R Nine One, I'd be interested if the Rocket is twice the machine. I haven't used either so i'm just speculating.

              The Crem seems to use a standard rotary pump from what I can tell in the brochure but is controlled using some patented electronics whereas the R Nine One uses a gear pump. The groups also are very different.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by luca View Post
                It does a bunch of stuff that nothing else does, and which I use all the time.
                Agreed. You're probably not what would be considered a typical user though
                Last edited by Caffeinator; 19th February 2020, 04:07 PM. Reason: key word missing!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Caffeinator View Post
                  He read your mind Luca. LM's current GS3 is not the machine I'd own. My opinion FWIW, is that it's somewhat of a con. The Strada parts bin was used to create something people thought they wanted. In reality, I suspect that the main reason was that the previous paddle mechanism chewed through o-rings. I owned one and never managed 12 months without having to replace them. Enter the conical valve which will go a few years of home use without leaking but for pressure profiling, it's 2/10 and there is no way of repeating a good shot. I personally think that the gauge sitting up there on top of the paddle also looks ridiculous.

                  Some years ago, Rick made an amazing bread board machine with a variable speed pump and a Synesso boiler and it was (as most of his stuff is) sheer brilliance. This tech is going into his GS3 and it's sorely tempting in that it works and I have no doubt that his reborn pressure profiling machine will look incredible as well. Perhaps LM might look and actually learn something.

                  I'm lucky to have been able to indulge my passion with quite a few different home machines amongst which were a GS3 MP (good, but irritating due to the seal issues), 2 x Slayer (The first one was possessed and never managed 3 months without failing- ultimately replaced by the manufacturer). The second was moved on while I played with a restored and pimped vintage leva (currently in storage but to be revisited some day). An early Decent was in amongst them as well (good concept, but way too Sunbeam for me- costs $5k, looks appliance for mine). I currently have an R NINE one and it's streets ahead of any of my previous machines.

                  I loved the design of the Slayer but the Rocket is all over it for reliability, repeatability and quality in the cup. Mine looks pretty amazing too after Rick was given carte blanche to go nuts on custom work for it.
                  I have to agree with you there Caffeinator, I have been down the same path with owning a GS3 MP and not being able to get repeatability on it, then bought a Slayer and went thru two pumps and two gauges. Finally I have a R Nine and what you say with reliability, repeatability and quality in the cup is spot on.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by noidle22 View Post
                    The Crem One that recently came out may be worth noting. It's half the price of the R Nine One, I'd be interested if the Rocket is twice the machine. I haven't used either so i'm just speculating.

                    The Crem seems to use a standard rotary pump from what I can tell in the brochure but is controlled using some patented electronics whereas the R Nine One uses a gear pump. The groups also are very different.
                    I have. They're both great, but different. Neither user interface is perfect, but I do prefer the interface on the Rocket. On the Crem, you can roll your own profile and save it to run again, but it's not possible to program a profile and then save it. You can however write one and load it via USB at the rear of the machine. I'm also not that enamoured with the plumb or power solution/s on the Crem. Power and inlet hose (black poly/teflon?) exit the rear of these machines. Fine if you have it against a wall, but not so good for an island bench solution where it's nice if services and drainage can come from underneath.

                    Manual pressure profiling with the Crem is a two-handed operation and that irritates me somewhat as I have been spoiled by the R Nine. You can run a saved profile by raising the leva. I like the power of the R Nine as well as the fact that you can change temperature and see it in a minute or two. Big boilers and a saturated group will do that.

                    The Crem is incredible though and beautifully built (internally- albeit with some quick-fit teflon runs) and it opens pressure profiling to a whole new market. It makes a regular dual boiler PID e-61 machine at $4-4.5k a whole heap harder to justify and is definitely in a whole different league to e-61 machines with a do-flicky mushroom upgrade. When compared to the old Expobar machines, I am seeing a quantum leap.

                    Ultimately two different and excellent machines at two very different price points. We all win as there's now more choice.
                    Last edited by Caffeinator; 19th February 2020, 04:13 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Thank you one and all for your comments. Very educational and helpful. I had never heard of Crem One or DE1Pro.
                      I have decided to go with the Rocket. As mention I have had one for the past 8years and it has served me very well. Looking forward to experimenting with the profiling.

                      On a separate note- Logga, I see you are in Napier NZ. Is that boy Ben Simcox still making good coffee in Groove Kitchen? Your in a lovely part of the country.

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                      • johnthepom0
                        johnthepom0 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I'm thinking of upgrading from Giotto and would appreciate your thoughts on your new Rocket R nine One.

                    • #12
                      What do you know. Others must have been asking the same question.

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GRXUZ506dU

                      this wasn't as helpful tho- thanks again.

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                      • #13
                        Originally posted by Funkki View Post
                        On a separate note- Logga, I see you are in Napier NZ. Is that boy Ben Simcox still making good coffee in Groove Kitchen? Your in a lovely part of the country.
                        Groove Kitchen is no longer, pity because he made a good coffee and they had great food.

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                        • #14
                          Rocket R Nine One without a doubt.
                          I've had lots of great advice and support from Chris and he's a fan. That's enough for me.

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                          • #15
                            Biggest advantage of the R91 is that it offers both MP and AV in the one machine, whereas the GS3 forces you to choose one or the other.

                            Other important features include gear pump, stored profiles, record/playback, side mounted steam lever and a detailed on/off timer schedule.

                            It's also simple to switch between tank and plumb. A very well thought out machine.

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