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How often does a Rocket Giotto need servicing REALLY?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by EspressoAdventurer View Post
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]25383[/ATTACH]

    Just like old times ....its been sooo long!
    A good Ole Coffeesnobs.... Compfratomp
    Clearly how often you use detergent is like flexing here. Lets detergent backwash every single shot. Get those internals gleaming!

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Yelta View Post
      Morning Cats, sounds to me your looking for reasons to avoid this simple process.

      "you may as well leave the spanners next to the portafilter."
      Good idea! I have a spanner and screwdriver that live under the machine.

      "water backflushing super reguarly means there should be very little for the detergent to ever do"
      Wrong!
      I water back flush twice a day, when I do my weekly Cafetto flush, which involves removing and washing the shower screen first, there is ALWAYS an accumulation of oil and gunk under the screen that water flushing has failed to remove, have a look at the colour of the back flush Cafetto solution in the drip tray after carrying out the process, where do you think that stuff came from?
      Another neglected area is the portafilter, remove the basket, oils and gunk build up quickly in this area, soak the PF and basket in Cafetto or similar will bring it up like new.

      Back flushing is a simple process that has implications for hygiene and machine longevity, I certainly don't like the thought of drinking coffee that has flowed through a filthy filter area, have a read of this, then check the link.

      "CHICAGO --So what's really brewing in that cup of coffee you make every day?

      It turns out germs love to lurk.

      Ten Chicago area families let CBS 2 swab their one-cup coffee makers. Then CBS 2 reporter Mary Kay Kleist took the samples to Loyola University, where experts tested them for germs. Microbiologist Roman Golash tested the cup containing coffee grounds, underneath where the coffee comes out and the water reservoir. He found bacteria including gram-positive strains like staphylococcus, streptococcus and bacillus cereus. He also discovered enteric bacteria, or bacteria of the intestines, like e-coli.



      "I think the high amounts of fecal material or the enteric organisms I would probably be concerned about," Golash said.
      Five of the machines sampled had bacteria either on the machine, in the water or in both places. Test results found bacteria in just the water samples of three other machines and no bacteria at all in the samples taken from two of the machines.
      Bacteria found in a coffee machine WBBM Stephanie Mathews' machine had 100,000 colony-forming units of bacteria in the water reservoir -- the highest number of bacteria in all the samples. "That's gross," Mathews said."

      https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nasty-germs-may-be-lurking-in-your-coffee-maker/

      In short, for the sake of your machine and your health, back flush regularly, daily with water, weekly with a chemical product, then lube as necessary.
      The problem is, the cleaning is now:
      Empty and detergent clean the drip tray every time it gets full
      Refill the water resivour
      Clean the resivoir with detergent regularly to avoid algae
      Water backflush
      Chemical backflush
      Disassemble leaver
      Clean body panels
      ...how much time do you want to spend making coffee vs just maintaining things

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Cats View Post
        Clearly how often you use detergent is like flexing here. Lets detergent backwash every single shot. Get those internals gleaming!
        As you choose. I am happy to have people pay me to clean up what they could easily have done for themselves

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Cats View Post
          The problem is, the cleaning is now:
          Empty and detergent clean the drip tray every time it gets full
          Refill the water resivour
          Clean the resivoir with detergent regularly to avoid algae
          Water backflush
          Chemical backflush
          Disassemble leaver
          Clean body panels
          ...how much time do you want to spend making coffee vs just maintaining things
          You make it all seem like an onerous task, when in point of fact its simple and takes very little time.

          Of course there is nothing forcing you to comply, adopt the path you are most comfortable with.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Caffeinator View Post
            As you choose. I am happy to have people pay me to clean up what they could easily have done for themselves
            Dont get me wrong. I want to correctly maintain my machine. But i don't want to cause the wear on the internals that we saw in another recent thread.
            There is a fine line between keeping it clean and just creating work for yourself.
            Areas susceptible to having bacterial growth are places where standing water at warm temperatures (not boiling hot group head internals).
            Your drip tray and portafilter is a great example.

            Again, im trying to find the right balance and not succumb to being anal about cleaning when its pretty clear you can wear stuff out and end up doing more harm than good

            Comment


            • #21
              Ok so to close the loop, I did two chemcial backflushes this morning after having not done one since jan 17th. Two was to see if the first didnt get everything.

              I put 1/3 of a teaspoon in, then ran the lever for 10sec, let it sit for 20 sec, then discharged.
              I repeated this 4 times, then added another round of cafetto and repeated.

              Almost nothing came out the drip tray, the slightest bit of brown..about the same as what i would get with water backflushes.. probably because i didnt do much water after the coffee this mornng.
              There was a bit of brown in the backflush basket after the first round of cafetto which says to me that the only place there really was any coffee was in the shower screen.

              There was certainally no black at all.

              The lever went completely stiff indicating I've completely stripped any lubricant that was in there and now ill have to dissassemble and redo it.

              As discussed, depending on how many shots you do in a period of a few hours, how long you leave it after shots before water backflushing, and so on, your milage will vary as to how often chemical backflusjing is required... however in my case, the original recommendations by profitec and also the online e61 lubrication tutorial saying 1-3 months or 120ish shots is definitly correct. I saw no benefit from doing it this time. Hope this helps to alay some concern about how infrequently you have to do it. In my case weekly would be super overkill.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Covalatt View Post
                Hi all

                I have a Rocket Giotto Evoluzione R.

                It is 18 months old.

                Makes 2 coffees every morning, stays hot for about 45 minutes each day.

                I was told it needed to be serviced every 12-18 months so I'm at the very end of the recommended service interval.

                However the machine is working flawlessly, and I backflush after each use, and clean it using the Cafetto espresso clean powder once a month (about 20-30 backflushes).

                So do I really need the servicing, or can I stretch it out to 2 years?

                Thanks in advance.

                Hi

                Sorry in advance for a silly question, but now being able to finally afford a good cafe machine up to @ $5000 I need to ask one thing, is the coffee any good for one, and main question being, how much tamping is needed for a good coffee out the other end of this machine? It's one of the 3 I've narrowed down to the one I want.

                Cheers
                Stuart

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by smoky View Post
                  how much tamping is needed for a good coffee out the other end of this machine?
                  How much tamping? How many? How hard? How accurate? How consistent? What do you mean?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cats View Post
                    Ok so to close the loop, I did two chemcial backflushes this morning after having not done one since jan 17th. Two was to see if the first didnt get everything.

                    I put 1/3 of a teaspoon in, then ran the lever for 10sec, let it sit for 20 sec, then discharged.
                    I repeated this 4 times, then added another round of cafetto and repeated.

                    Almost nothing came out the drip tray, the slightest bit of brown..about the same as what i would get with water backflushes.. probably because i didnt do much water after the coffee this mornng.
                    There was a bit of brown in the backflush basket after the first round of cafetto which says to me that the only place there really was any coffee was in the shower screen.

                    There was certainally no black at all.

                    The lever went completely stiff indicating I've completely stripped any lubricant that was in there and now ill have to dissassemble and redo it.

                    As discussed, depending on how many shots you do in a period of a few hours, how long you leave it after shots before water backflushing, and so on, your milage will vary as to how often chemical backflusjing is required... however in my case, the original recommendations by profitec and also the online e61 lubrication tutorial saying 1-3 months or 120ish shots is definitly correct. I saw no benefit from doing it this time. Hope this helps to alay some concern about how infrequently you have to do it. In my case weekly would be super overkill.
                    The type of coffee you use will have an impact. It sounds like you only use light to medium roasted coffee. If you were using darker roasts it’d be more of an issue. I’m just guessing here, could be totally wrong, but it’s something others should take into account anyway.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I think if you chemical backflush and not much yuk comes out, you could leave it longer next time. If it's fully cruddy, needs to be more often.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by LeroyC View Post

                        The type of coffee you use will have an impact. It sounds like you only use light to medium roasted coffee. If you were using darker roasts it’d be more of an issue. I’m just guessing here, could be totally wrong, but it’s something others should take into account anyway.
                        Hi Leroy, i only use dark.
                        i havent considered what the relationship would be, but u are right there is likely to be more oil.
                        i do honestly think now its just a residual time thing, if you put hot water through it almost immediately afterwards not much can stick.
                        in a commercial environment it would be very time consuming to do that (a water flush and a backflush every shot) but in a home environment, i pretty much just run one shot and switch it off so i think it's best practice to clean up at the end.
                        if you pulled 5 shots each morning you might operate differently but i dont :P

                        jackster I agree, this is the best way to do it. no point excessively cleaning when it isnt doing anything

                        Comment

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