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Originally posted by Sullo link=1194948739/30#40 date=1195632247
Luca
what is that machine in the pic?
Also forgot to mention I needed to make gravy tonight and needed hot water, Abbey came to the rescue, the hot water spout dodat thingis great for quick hotwater.
Especially for cleaning and need a jugfull.
I love my Abbey and grinder, youd have to pry her from my cold dead lifeless corpse to remove her from me
Sullos
Its a LaMarzocco GS3 Sullo...Dead sexy hey? 8-)...and also about $7k
Also forgot to mention I needed to make gravy tonight and needed hot water, Abbey came to the rescue, the hot water spout dodat thingis great for quick hotwater.
Especially for cleaning and need a jugfull.
I love my Abbey and grinder, youd have to pry her from my cold dead lifeless corpse to remove her from me
Originally posted by Identity link=1194948739/30#35 date=1195604316
Just chucking in my own $0.00 (australian rounding). As a home user of espresso machines Id love the next step up from a HX machine, but the choices of 1 group commercials (Synesso etc) are more difficult. The 2 groups are an expense that needs justifying - tweaking brew temperature and pressure being two of the main benefits. But Id prefer to spend $350 on scrap and enjoy the repairs than $1000-2500 on something else. If I had a 2-grp Azzy Id plumb it in at home, like Sullo. But no-ones going to buy it at $4000 as they can get a cheap new one for that, or replace 3 s/h machines.
Hi Identity,
Im sort of with you. I have gotten to use a whole heap of both commercial and "prosumer" machines over the past few years and if theres one thing that I have found out it is that there are crappy machines in both categories and good machines in both categories. The fact that something is "commercial" really means that it can dish out lots of coffee at a specific rate, not that it can dish it out at any specific quality. Frankly, I think that the good "prosumer" machines are capable of producing coffee that competes favourably with most commercial machines and certainly exceeds what some of the bad ones that I have used are capable of. Once you have a decent "prosumer" machine, I think that the next thing to spend money on is to make sure that you are feeding it the best coffee you can possibly get for it. After that, the grinder is probably the next step up. I always found it wierd how there are heaps of CS members who will put a multi-group machine on their bench, but very few who will pair any of their machines with something like a robur. Possibly, this might be because once someone owns one of those grinders, very little short of death will result in them being put on the second-hand market! After that, I suspect that training with a really awesome barista would probably make the most difference. You can buy a lot of beans, a robur or similar and a fair bit of training with a decent barista for the price difference between a prosumer HX and a Synesso.
I think that any step up from a good prosumer machine to another machine is a lot of money for a small benefit in the cup, although the rotary pump and having a machine both plumbed in and out is very nice. Having the ability to make small temperature changes on the fly is kind of nice. And by this, Im really talking PIDded dual boiler or, maybe, variable thermosyphon restrictor ... otherwise the big HX machines are exactly the same as the little ones. Actually, theyre probably worse - you lose the ability to drop the brew temperature with a very large cooling flush. But I dont think that temperature changes can be viewed in isolation - I suspect that temperature changes might make more difference for some group designs than others.
One day I would love to have a GS3 on my bench. I think that it really bridges the gap between a prosumer machine and a full-sized hoity toity commercial machine. The shots that I got to pull on it were great and, unexpectedly, seemed to produce more crema than the same blend did on any other machine. Small tweaks one way or another made a small, but noticeable, difference. Large tweaks one way or another made the difference between undrinkable and drinkable. It did take a fair bit of time to tweak everything in line to have it perform how I wanted it to, and in that sense I think that it is an ideal upgrade path - you will get much more from that machine if you can already make great espresso. Anyhoo; I might end that daydream there.
no BS Coffee - welcome to the site. A two group at home is a thing of beauty. I stop short of enumerating the benefits of a commercial 2 group at home because 1. Robusto and Sullo have given some reasons and 2. you can (and probably should now that you have given us a Judgment about 2 groups) look at the threads in this section and see the benefits.
For me form follows function on most things and I dont like excess for the sake of excess. Having now owned several machines from a $90 Sunbeam Ristretto up I would never say that a commercial 2 group is excessive (and I would never give mine up). Can I suggest that you might need to experience one in the home to truly appreciate it.
Originally posted by Identity link=1194948739/30#35 date=1195604316
Just chucking in my own $0.00 (australian rounding). As a home user of espresso machines Id love the next step up from a HX machine, but the choices of 1 group commercials (Synesso etc) are more difficult. The 2 groups are an expense that needs justifying - tweaking brew temperature and pressure being two of the main benefits. But Id prefer to spend $350 on scrap and enjoy the repairs than $1000-2500 on something else. If I had a 2-grp Azzy Id plumb it in at home, like Sullo. But no-ones going to buy it at $4000 as they can get a cheap new one for that, or replace 3 s/h machines.
Perhaps this is the next step for home users Identity :-??
One group commercial dedicated pumbed machine Dual boiler 2.4 litre steam and 0.45 litre brew.
0.5 deg. C brew temperature control via easily adjustable touchpad
Volumetric touch pad
Stunning shot quality and microfoam...
Little over $3k (at present pre-Christmas discount pricing- with complimentary Coffeelab design tamper)
What is it??
LaSpaziale Vivaldi II- The Ferrari of home coffee with the Falcon price tag
Just chucking in my own $0.00 (australian rounding). As a home user of espresso machines Id love the next step up from a HX machine, but the choices of 1 group commercials (Synesso etc) are more difficult. The 2 groups are an expense that needs justifying - tweaking brew temperature and pressure being two of the main benefits. But Id prefer to spend $350 on scrap and enjoy the repairs than $1000-2500 on something else. If I had a 2-grp Azzy Id plumb it in at home, like Sullo. But no-ones going to buy it at $4000 as they can get a cheap new one for that, or replace 3 s/h machines.
Originally posted by no BS coffee link=1194948739/30#31 date=1195558507
get real who needs a two group at home........... if you are interested in selling it what do you care about the home market, just dump it on the net $2500 if your lucky
"need" in this context isnt necessarily related to replicating a coffee shop enviroment at home, SB -- we dont own 2- and 3-group machines so we can turn out coffee after coffee all day.
We like their indestructible build. Ability to be left on all day. And -- as in my case -- ability to make 2 or 3 coffees at once. The list goes on.
Originally posted by no BS coffee link=1194948739/30#31 date=1195558507
get real who needs a two group at home...........
I DO!
no temp surfing no waiting hot water on tap steam pressure out the wazoo
wake, scratch self, stumble to kitchen, hit grind, fall comatose for 11 seconds, slap self, dose tamp lock load, press button, watch pour, smile starts to happen, get milk, steam milk, pour milk to cup stir, drink...
Balance returns to the planet...
Before this, temp surf watch for orange light , think was it on or off, slap self, yawn, get bored and go back to bed, have 2 group none of this sentence applies
Now if I can get that 3 group working Illbe a happy lil camper
get real who needs a two group at home........... if you are interested in selling it what do you care about the home market, just dump it on the net $2500 if your lucky
Wow, youre dumping about 1.5-2kg a week. Theres still a bit of savings to be had. I know its not a perfect world, and you cant possibly have 0% wastage, but dont you think the equivalent of a 1L takeaway box of coffee a night is a bit excessive? You could at least use it for iced coffees. Try to get every cent you can out of it.
yep good point TG and MB - I reckon if you get the espresso right in a milk drink in particular, most people are going to like it without sugar unless they are real sweetness junkies - I always had to have 1-2 sugars (say 3 cubes) pre- snobbery....now no way.
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