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  • Has anyone purchased from overseas?

    Hi all

    Just wondering if anyone has experience in having purchased a machine from overseas - primarily via one of the European seller websites.

    To be clear, Im not looking for a commentary on the pro's & con's of this approach - I've read a few old threads on this which have become quite opinionated.

    But what I am very interested in is the experiences of anyone who has gone down this route; or, has explored it before ultimately deciding against it.

    Feel free to PM rather than responding in the open, as I certainly dont want to open up another un-necessarily emotional exchange!

    Cheers

    Baz


  • #2
    Electrical compliance would be an issue I think. I would not go there. Not to mention all the issues of importing it/paying gst etc.

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    • #3
      Warranty/ACL coverage would be an issue as well.

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      • #4
        Yes, I’m fully aware of the above, but as mentioned, I would like the experiences of people who may have actually gone through the process.

        cheers

        Baz

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        • #5
          Originally posted by shewey View Post
          Electrical compliance would be an issue I think.
          Most non-appliance brand espresso equipment you can buy locally does not meet Australian electrical compliance either, bar a very select few brands. They have CE compliance and that's it.

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          • #6
            I bought a machine from OS. Control board blew within a year. I would not recommend. Too much risk. When it goes wrong it really goes wrong and you are up the creek with literally no consumer protection.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by nickm View Post
              I bought a machine from OS. Control board blew within a year. I would not recommend. Too much risk. When it goes wrong it really goes wrong and you are up the creek with literally no consumer protection.
              Thanks Nick

              mind if I ask what kind of machine you bought? (Brand)

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              • #8
                I assisted with an Alex Duetto purchased overseas. Worked for a week. Some parts had actually been removed from the machine!

                Seller refused any warranty support because. Seller said they had been refused supply by the manufacturer/distributor so couldn't get parts. $$$$ expense to make it right for the owner and it's still a low value grey import.

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                • #9
                  Baz, I have bought plenty of machines in for personal use like Cadillacs Harley, etc but not a coffee machine. Generally I bring in things for myself which aren't available here. I remember looking a couple of years back at coffee machines and the numbers seemed close, too close for the potential hassle. I just bought a new machine a few weeks ago, so quickly ran the exercise on it. My machine is mid priced, the savings don't work at the bottom end but may at the very top end like Slayer or KVDW.

                  I bought a Valexia Leva which is almost the Alex Leva which Antony at Casa Espresso has for $4990. https://www.casaespresso.com.au/izzo-valexia-leva.html

                  A quick check shows an OS box seller, without it in stock, will supply that for 2000 euro or $3250 on today's rates, say $250 for freight (conservative they use DHL, Fedex, etc) for $3500. The site correctly says you will pay 15% duty when it hits Australia (actually 5% duty and 10% GST) or $525 plus the $60 or so processing fee for a new total of $4085. Antony specs extra equipment for the AU version with IMS showerscreens, filters, stainless circlips, etc easily over $120 and I wanted to buy anyway. So the machine is now $4200. Add a naked portafilter you may be able to get Antony to throw in and now the difference is less than $700. Any hiccups along the way in delivery, Customs, AQIS, etc and that is substantially reduced.

                  Still the machines aren't equal. One is from a box seller, meaning the box hasn't been opened and the associated risks that entails, exacerbated by a long trip. The other is a full service seller who ran the machine up first. The second part with full service is if it had a dent, didn't start, etc when it arrived I wouldn't have worried my pretty head about it - Antony would have taken care of it, not me. If it is a mildly nice machine you want to always have good thoughts about it and a great experience, full service assures this. One issue would have meant a hundred or two dollars of service call, actual components faulty would add more. You deserve a warm experience buying your machine, not worry.

                  You already know the risks of parts issues, random AQIS inspection costs, etc so wont repeat those. A one year warranty on a machine like these is roughly 10%, add that and the machines are near equal in price.

                  The last part is something which wont apply to all and some just think about themselves (potentially rightly so) and just wont care. I am lucky and have a job in these Covid times when many don't. I am buying a $5k machine, I feel I have a duty for the modest difference to spend my money in Australia and help keep others employed.

                  For the me the numbers just seem too close for the potential risks involved and absolute certainty that I will not receive the 'full service' ownership experience. I chose the full service experience with Antony. YMMV

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                  • #10
                    Thanks 338 for the great detailed answer.

                    Your cost breakdown makes sense - I had wondered about the 15% duty - and actually wondered whether GST may have even been on TOP of that!.... Ive read stories of people getting away with little or no import duty on occasion, but even if some of them are true you certainly wouldnt want to be making a decision based on that assumption.

                    Its interesting; my quick calcs, using the Rocket range for instance, show a larger % saving on the lower priced machines, which gets smaller as you go up the range. You would actually save almost the identical amount on an Apartamento, a Giotto V & a Giotto R (approx $570 in each case). Id suggest everything else being equal you could almost make a case for what amounts to a 20% saving on an Apartamento; but as that drops to 15% on a Giotto R, not so much. And the saving on a $4.5k R58 (or I should say its new equivalent) is only about $400.....

                    But everything isnt equal. and obviously there ARE other considerations (warranty, compliance, etc), none of which greatly concern me individually, but each of which have a "cost", and which adds up. Meaning that even that potential 20% saving doesnt seem as attractive in the light of day.

                    One thing which Im interested in, is what changes may be made to the "local" version; presumably not by the manufacturer, but by the local importer and/or retailer. I wonder how widespread this practice may be across different makes and retailers - and what drives this; ie: is it more done as a sales point of difference, or does it improve a perceived shortcoming?...

                    I started running the exercise as I live in regional Vic, 3 hours or so from Melbourne, so having a "local" retailer isnt as of much use to me. Any warranty issue (which would hopefully be unlikely on a machine costing $3k and upwards) is going to be a pain in the butt regardless.

                    Maybe its just me - or maybe its a country thing - I'll go out of my way to support a "local" retailer here in the country (to a point of course - about 30% ive found curiously), but my loyalty and sense of duty fast evaporates when I head to the city....

                    Thanks all

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bazfletch3 View Post

                      Thanks Nick

                      mind if I ask what kind of machine you bought? (Brand)
                      Bought a lelit mara from a seller who no longer exists. Had my time again 100% would NOT do

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bazfletch3 View Post
                        .

                        One thing which Im interested in, is what changes may be made to the "local" version; presumably not by the manufacturer, but by the local importer and/or retailer. I wonder how widespread this practice may be across different makes and retailers - and what drives this; ie: is it more done as a sales point of difference, or does it improve a perceived shortcoming?...

                        I started running the exercise as I live in regional Vic, 3 hours or so from Melbourne, so having a "local" retailer isnt as of much use to me. Any warranty issue (which would hopefully be unlikely on a machine costing $3k and upwards) is going to be a pain in the butt regardless.

                        Maybe its just me - or maybe its a country thing - I'll go out of my way to support a "local" retailer here in the country (to a point of course - about 30% ive found curiously), but my loyalty and sense of duty fast evaporates when I head to the city....

                        Thanks all
                        Something goes wrong and it's a 3 hour drive and 0$ repair as opposed to being up the creek with a 3 hour drive with a $$$$$ repair. It's a risk. Let us know how you go


                        ​​​​​​

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                        • #13
                          Baz some machines are adjusted for our climate (a gicleur or restrictor, to slow flow of heat), some for our tastes (not many dark robusta coffees drunk here), others spec different boilers for AU. This will probably happen in the factory but possibly here but is destination specific. Don't be so sure a $3k machine works out of the box, it should but easily may require some small adjustments. Plenty of stories here where that happens. $3k is a bit out of our personal weekly budget but to a manufacturer it is just another machine and one at the lower end of the scale, faults happen.

                          I hear what you say about rural businesses as I spend a fair bit of time in the country. That said many coffee machine business are pretty modest in size and you could count the families your dollar will be helping.

                          Which brings up another point, good coffee business overseas don't chase our sales, as they realise they can't support in the manner they would like. So the sharp pricing comes from box movers who have a diabolical reputation. You can't have the sharpest prices and time consuming support or high service levels. Zero support, surprise charges, closing and reopening, etc.

                          Even 3 hours from Melbourne your machine would be fixed faster by spending half an hour on the phone with a local tech, then an express bag with the part. Versus zero support so muddling on forums or similar, then trying to find the part. Fun on something you are restoring, frustrating on something recently purchased. You can see I just don't think os purchases on this item are cheap enough to bother.


                          For your own amusement read about Cafe Italia on these forums - not particularly bad or good, just typical box mover and practices.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by nickm View Post

                            Something goes wrong and it's a 3 hour drive and 0$ repair as opposed to being up the creek with a 3 hour drive with a $$$$$ repair. It's a risk. Let us know how you go


                            ​​​​​​
                            I dont disagree with your sentiment Nick, but again, its a risk/consideration on a couple of fronts. Time and inconvenience has a value as well, Ive certainly had previous instances of having either fixed something myself, or paid someone locally to fix something, that I could have had rectified for "free" under warranty if I was either willing to waste 6 to 8hrs of my time in the car or go without something for the fortnight it takes to ship something off and back.

                            While I certainly dont pretend to have any real knowledge or experience on the matter, Id hope like hell that these kinds of machines, once set up and working (ie: with no out of the box problems) dont have warranty type issues very often - we're not talking about your Aldi appliance type purchases that you almost expect to fail....

                            cheers

                            Baz

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 338 View Post
                              You can see I just don't think os purchases on this item are cheap enough to bother.
                              Yes, and after digging through things I tend to agree. Its an interesting discussion though - which I appreciate.

                              I do find it curious that a lot of the other commentary Ive read around this topic (not on this thread - for which Im thankful!) seems to head in illogical directions very quickly.... "yes but what if?" I would imagine that kind of view is why Harvey Norman make almost as much from their extended warranty programs as they do from actual sales....

                              Cheers

                              Baz




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