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Who buys these Sanremo, Faema and La San Marco machines?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
    Covalatt...you should get out more! ;-) The big roasters with heaps of small accounts have pallets of these cheaper machines that they dish out as part of the 'free stuff' contracts/supply agreements they have with cafes, some of whom may only do 5 or 6 kgs per week. No-one is getting a high end machine for that sort of turnover. Other more middle sized roasters have a tiered machine supply contract/agreement where you either pay higher prices for increasing quality of machine or you are a bulk consumer doing 50/70/100kgs per week. ( hence the road house with a Slayer).
    Thanks that's interesting. I had no idea how the contracts between cafes and roasters work. Interesting to get an insight in that regard. Cheers.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Morgz View Post

      Most of the cafes I go to are using either Synesso or Slayer; or perhaps KVDW. LM less so. I doubt LM are anywhere near 90%; in fact I suspect brands like Wega etc have a much bigger share than you suspect.
      Australia are one of La Marzocco's biggest markets, and Melbourne and Sydney account for the bulk of Marzocco sales in Australia, which is why Marzocco now have local showrooms in Melbourne and Sydney.
      Linea PBs are now almost a 'default' machine in Melbourne for a lot of roasters supplying equipment to customers - over the last year things almost seemed to standardise to the point where the majority of installs we did for a variety of roasters involved a Linea PB, an EK43, and 1 or 2 Mythos Ones.
      But we do a LOT of Cafe Racers - even during this COVID quiet period we have probably installed 40 or so. ONA seem to be using Cafe Racers almost exclusively, the ONA customers I can think of without Racers all have Linea PBs.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Covalatt View Post
        If you're a home barista and coffee machine enthusiast you'll be well familiar with manufacturers like Rancilio, Bezzera, Rocket, ECM, Profitec, Isomac, Lelit, and maybe to a lesser extent La Pavoni, Gaggia and Vibiemme. Names like La Marzocco and Slayer are held in high regard as the Ferraris and Lamborghinis of the espresso machine world, with La Marzocco dominating the Australian commercial espresso machine market (I'd guess that 95% of cafes I go to have a La Marzocco), and Slayer the newer and more flamboyant American challenger to the throne available in cafes with high hipster and Instagram appeal. But Sanremo, Faema and La San Marco? I've caught glimpses of these machines, usually in restaurants where they sit in a corner next to the bar, or in cafes that are well behind the trend in their decor and quality of coffee, or even in BBQ chicken shops where they probably never get cleaned, as evidenced by a thick caked on layer of solidified milk on the steam wands. The machines often had a retro look to them, but more uncool 1980s retro than the modern hip retro design (in truth these machines were probably 30+ years old). Like this one for example: I thought they must be cheaper machines bought by businesses that didn't take their coffee seriously and didn't want to shell out for a La Marzocco, and in any case they'd probably be used by bar staff with barely any knowledge of coffee, to make coffee for customers who'd struggle to tell you the difference between a cappuccino and a flat white. But doing some more digging, it turns out they all have long histories on par or longer than the likes of La Marzocco. Faema actually introduced the legendary E61 group head which is now industry standard. And La San Marco? Established 100 years ago in Udine, Italy. My assumption that they were significantly cheaper alternatives to the La Marzocco with less history were thus shattered, and they produce espresso machines like these: So the question is, who buys these machines to keep them in business? I've never seen new or modern examples of these machines anywhere, either in businesses or for sale in espresso machine suppliers. Perhaps they are big in Europe or USA and we are a small market here in Australia? Anyone know more about these machines? Thanks in advance.
        I’m not having a dig at you so don’t take this the wrong way. Actually I think you’ve already started to work out for yourself that you’ve been making some assumptions that aren’t quite right and have learnt a bit already through some research. The simple truth is that looking around at what equipment is currently in cafes and what sort of prosumer machines are currently in homes doesn’t really tell you much about the long history of the coffee industry and the machines themselves. For example you state that La Pavoni and Gaggia are ‘lesser known’. That may have a little truth to it for the average cafe worker and home baristas entering the market but if you don’t know who those people are and you’re getting really interested in coffee then I highly recommend that you find out. The other big important names in the history of the espresso machine are Victoria Arduino (who are now part of one of the biggest manufacturers in the world now), Bezzera and Faema. While La Marzocco might be nearly 100 years old they didn’t do anything very significant until they invented the saturated group about 50 years ago. I’m sure you’ll also find a good number of Gruppo Simonelli machines in cafes if you look around. They are very popular in NZ as they’re distributed by Suntory so they are supplied to cafes using one of their brands. If you’re high end and/or high turnover you’ll get a Victoria Arduino Black or White Eagle otherwise it’ll be a Nuova Simonelli Aurelia or Appia. Anything that James Hoffmann uses tends to have a fair bit of street cred. Also Australia has had two World Barista Champions, one runner up and another 4 or 5 at least that have made the finals. The relatively short history of that competition is another interesting topic that’s often had plenty of controversy.

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        • #19
          Don't forget the home grown boema. Made in Australia! Anyways I don't buy into the lm as Ferrari hype. I don't own a highend machine that belongs in a Cafe but I'm sure supply chains and service contracts and marketing are what determines what businesses owners buy over what is available

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          • #20
            Interesting viewpoint. For me growing up in italian communities in sydney in the 70's Gaggia and FAEMA were the gold standards in commercial coffee equipment, They sponsored sports teams, bicycle teams and were in most coffee shops in Liechhardt and other italian suburbs - the only places where you could even get espresso in those days.
            There is a great book about the history of FAEMA by Maltoni which is worth a look if you ever come across it.
            In italy machine choices are based on the region you are in, with the exception of La Cimbali which seems to be the most universally used machine in most of the big cities north of Rome. South of Rome things get much more interesting with all kinds of lever machines - i saw a number of brand new LSM levers around Naples and Puglia- one was six groups!

            I believe coffee machines choices, like most things, are driven by fashion : what was once cool and innovative becomes the standard which then becomes mainstream and boring. companies that become complacent with their position, fail to innovate and fall from favour. Something that is compounded by marketing spin.
            La Marzocco was a fairly obscure company that had been around since 1927, but once they teamed up with a consortium of american coffee promoters in the late 90's they were heralded as the coffee machine of choice by american "Third Wave" espresso makers. thats not to say they didn't make quality machines, but their current position of being in 95% of cafes is more due to marketing than functionality.
            After its period of Innovation in the 60's Faema went from being one of the most prominent manufacturers to being bankrupt by 2000.
            Years form now I would not doubt, someone will wonder who the hell would want that old Linea two group, sitting in the back of a pizzeria covered in grease?

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            • level3ninja
              level3ninja commented
              Editing a comment
              Years from now, probably me! Maybe I'll collect PB Lineas like I seem to accumulate 6910s
              Last edited by level3ninja; 13 August 2020, 02:56 PM.

          • #21
            The first documented lever espresso machine imported into Australia was a La Carimali imported for a Sydney milk bar in 1948

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