Who buys these Sanremo, Faema and La San Marco machines?

[Aaron]

The first documented lever espresso machine imported into Australia was a La Carimali imported for a Sydney milk bar in 1948

[level3ninja]

Years from now, probably me! Maybe I'll collect PB Lineas like I seem to accumulate 6910s

[Aaron]

Interesting viewpoint. For me growing up in italian communities in sydney in the 70's Gaggia and FAEMA were the gold standards in commercial coffee equipment, They sponsored sports teams, bicycle teams and were in most coffee shops in Liechhardt and other italian suburbs - the only places where you could even get espresso in those days.
There is a great book about the history of FAEMA by Maltoni which is worth a look if you ever come across it.
In italy machine choices are based on the region you are in, with the exception of La Cimbali which seems to be the most universally used machine in most of the big cities north of Rome. South of Rome things get much more interesting with all kinds of lever machines - i saw a number of brand new LSM levers around Naples and Puglia- one was six groups!

I believe coffee machines choices, like most things, are driven by fashion : what was once cool and innovative becomes the standard which then becomes mainstream and boring. companies that become complacent with their position, fail to innovate and fall from favour. Something that is compounded by marketing spin.
La Marzocco was a fairly obscure company that had been around since 1927, but once they teamed up with a consortium of american coffee promoters in the late 90's they were heralded as the coffee machine of choice by american "Third Wave" espresso makers. thats not to say they didn't make quality machines, but their current position of being in 95% of cafes is more due to marketing than functionality.
After its period of Innovation in the 60's Faema went from being one of the most prominent manufacturers to being bankrupt by 2000.
Years form now I would not doubt, someone will wonder who the hell would want that old Linea two group, sitting in the back of a pizzeria covered in grease?

[t0fu]

Don't forget the home grown boema. Made in Australia! Anyways I don't buy into the lm as Ferrari hype. I don't own a highend machine that belongs in a Cafe but I'm sure supply chains and service contracts and marketing are what determines what businesses owners buy over what is available

[LeroyC]

If you're a home barista and coffee machine enthusiast you'll be well familiar with manufacturers like Rancilio, Bezzera, Rocket, ECM, Profitec, Isomac, Lelit, and maybe to a lesser extent La Pavoni, Gaggia and Vibiemme. Names like La Marzocco and Slayer are held in high regard as the Ferraris and Lamborghinis of the espresso machine world, with La Marzocco dominating the Australian commercial espresso machine market (I'd guess that 95% of cafes I go to have a La Marzocco), and Slayer the newer and more flamboyant American challenger to the throne available in cafes with high hipster and Instagram appeal. But Sanremo, Faema and La San Marco? I've caught glimpses of these machines, usually in restaurants where they sit in a corner next to the bar, or in cafes that are well behind the trend in their decor and quality of coffee, or even in BBQ chicken shops where they probably never get cleaned, as evidenced by a thick caked on layer of solidified milk on the steam wands. The machines often had a retro look to them, but more uncool 1980s retro than the modern hip retro design (in truth these machines were probably 30+ years old). Like this one for example: I thought they must be cheaper machines bought by businesses that didn't take their coffee seriously and didn't want to shell out for a La Marzocco, and in any case they'd probably be used by bar staff with barely any knowledge of coffee, to make coffee for customers who'd struggle to tell you the difference between a cappuccino and a flat white. But doing some more digging, it turns out they all have long histories on par or longer than the likes of La Marzocco. Faema actually introduced the legendary E61 group head which is now industry standard. And La San Marco? Established 100 years ago in Udine, Italy. My assumption that they were significantly cheaper alternatives to the La Marzocco with less history were thus shattered, and they produce espresso machines like these: So the question is, who buys these machines to keep them in business? I've never seen new or modern examples of these machines anywhere, either in businesses or for sale in espresso machine suppliers. Perhaps they are big in Europe or USA and we are a small market here in Australia? Anyone know more about these machines? Thanks in advance.

I’m not having a dig at you so don’t take this the wrong way. Actually I think you’ve already started to work out for yourself that you’ve been making some assumptions that aren’t quite right and have learnt a bit already through some research. The simple truth is that looking around at what equipment is currently in cafes and what sort of prosumer machines are currently in homes doesn’t really tell you much about the long history of the coffee industry and the machines themselves. For example you state that La Pavoni and Gaggia are ‘lesser known’. That may have a little truth to it for the average cafe worker and home baristas entering the market but if you don’t know who those people are and you’re getting really interested in coffee then I highly recommend that you find out. The other big important names in the history of the espresso machine are Victoria Arduino (who are now part of one of the biggest manufacturers in the world now), Bezzera and Faema. While La Marzocco might be nearly 100 years old they didn’t do anything very significant until they invented the saturated group about 50 years ago. I’m sure you’ll also find a good number of Gruppo Simonelli machines in cafes if you look around. They are very popular in NZ as they’re distributed by Suntory so they are supplied to cafes using one of their brands. If you’re high end and/or high turnover you’ll get a Victoria Arduino Black or White Eagle otherwise it’ll be a Nuova Simonelli Aurelia or Appia. Anything that James Hoffmann uses tends to have a fair bit of street cred. Also Australia has had two World Barista Champions, one runner up and another 4 or 5 at least that have made the finals. The relatively short history of that competition is another interesting topic that’s often had plenty of controversy.

[MorganGT]

Most of the cafes I go to are using either Synesso or Slayer; or perhaps KVDW. LM less so. I doubt LM are anywhere near 90%; in fact I suspect brands like Wega etc have a much bigger share than you suspect.

Australia are one of La Marzocco's biggest markets, and Melbourne and Sydney account for the bulk of Marzocco sales in Australia, which is why Marzocco now have local showrooms in Melbourne and Sydney.
Linea PBs are now almost a 'default' machine in Melbourne for a lot of roasters supplying equipment to customers - over the last year things almost seemed to standardise to the point where the majority of installs we did for a variety of roasters involved a Linea PB, an EK43, and 1 or 2 Mythos Ones.
But we do a LOT of Cafe Racers - even during this COVID quiet period we have probably installed 40 or so. ONA seem to be using Cafe Racers almost exclusively, the ONA customers I can think of without Racers all have Linea PBs.

[Covalatt]

Covalatt...you should get out more! ;-) The big roasters with heaps of small accounts have pallets of these cheaper machines that they dish out as part of the 'free stuff' contracts/supply agreements they have with cafes, some of whom may only do 5 or 6 kgs per week. No-one is getting a high end machine for that sort of turnover. Other more middle sized roasters have a tiered machine supply contract/agreement where you either pay higher prices for increasing quality of machine or you are a bulk consumer doing 50/70/100kgs per week. ( hence the road house with a Slayer).

Thanks that's interesting. I had no idea how the contracts between cafes and roasters work. Interesting to get an insight in that regard. Cheers.

[Covalatt]

Most of the cafes I go to are using either Synesso or Slayer; or perhaps KVDW. LM less so. I doubt LM are anywhere near 90%; in fact I suspect brands like Wega etc have a much bigger share than you suspect.

I'm probably speaking from a small sample, of mostly Inner West Sydney and Sydney CBD cafes. 90% is probably an exaggeration but 75% easy, in my estimation.

[chokkidog]

Covalatt...you should get out more! ;-) The big roasters with heaps of small accounts have pallets of these cheaper machines that they dish out as part of the 'free stuff' contracts/supply agreements they have with cafes, some of whom may only do 5 or 6 kgs per week. No-one is getting a high end machine for that sort of turnover. Other more middle sized roasters have a tiered machine supply contract/agreement where you either pay higher prices for increasing quality of machine or you are a bulk consumer doing 50/70/100kgs per week. ( hence the road house with a Slayer).

The presence of any particular brand of machine (and grinder) in a coffee outlet will tell you a multitude of possibilities. 1) the cafe owns it and it was their choice. 2) the cafe owns it and it was the best for their budget 3) the cafe owns it and bought it second hand ( so, because it was available) 4) the cafe owns it and made a choice based on who they know 5) the cafe owns it and made a choice on after market parts and service options for a particular machine 6) the roaster supplying the cafe has a particular like for a machine/brand 7) the roaster supplying the cafe was able to strike a volume deal with machine distributor 8) the roaster supplying the cafe decided on after market parts and service options for a particular machine. And there's probably more.... like the cafe owner who has no idea, other than thinking that opening a cafe is good idea.. who then looks at machines on eBay and thinks that a $1k 25 year old machine is as good as it gets and it'll make the best coffee because it 'cost a fortune' !! ;-)

[Morgz]

I've never been to ONA but heard great its about it, including the owner who I think was a world barista champion a while ago.

So it looks like I was narrow minded in thinking you had to have a La Marzocco if you're a serious cafe. But seriously, LM must have a 90%+ market share in the commercial espresso machine market. Remarkable.

Most of the cafes I go to are using either Synesso or Slayer; or perhaps KVDW. LM less so. I doubt LM are anywhere near 90%; in fact I suspect brands like Wega etc have a much bigger share than you suspect.

[Caffeinator]

Plenty of e-61 legends (and jubilees) as well as cafe racers in Melbourne. Heaps which are more exotic as well.

[Jackster]

I was wondering if that was the reason for the prevelance- a coffee bean contract with a free machine included

[level3ninja]

The worst coffee I have ever had was made on a 3gr Synesso MVP Hydra, in a petrol station between Perth and Margaret River. They had Seven Seeds coffee, and I saw a few others around with SS coffee so I assume it was supplied as part of the deal.

[Fuelledbycoffee]

We have a cafe racer here in tas at one of the roasters, lots of gaggia and expobars around too bu t are starting to see more lineas etc having said that been to plenty of places with nice machinery including one with a kvdw lever and still made dreadful coffee

[roosterben]

We see a few Cafe Racers here on the Gold Coast, nice looking machine, I think they may be supplied by Supreme Roasters to their high volume customers. Also spot the odd Slayer or Synesso machine, but then the other 95% are La Marzoccos with a few other models sprinkled in.