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  • Advice on next machine

    Greetings all,

    Preamble:
    I've had a Barista Espresso Express 870 for about 1.5 years now. I predominantly drink cuppacino and latte, and seldom make more than 2 cups at a go.

    Now I feel like want a bit more control, so I've been reading this forum and watching lots of youtube for tips and reviews.
    At first I had my mind set on the beatiful Rocket Appartmento Nera, retailing for around $3k, which is a bit of a stretch in price.
    Upon further reading, the Profitec Pro 500 seemed like a better option. Certain reviews seem to mention Profitec and ECM as solid and reliable builds. The Profitec Pro 500 is around $3.2k. But I have my doubts about this one as this forum has a few mentions of problems with this model.
    Then I gravitated to the ECM Technika V Profi at around $3.5k. The ECM style looks better quality with the rounded externals. Even though they come from the same factory, I get the feeling that the ECM is the higher end and Profitec is the lower end.
    Lastly, I think I want the Profitec Pro 600, after reading MarkQ's glowing review. This one has dual boiler as compared to the ones above which have heat exchangers.

    So I'm after some sage advice. I'm new to all this, but it hasn't taken me long to going from a ~$600 Barista Espresso to wanting something better.
    I get the general idea that I would be happy with any of the mentioned machines. I just don't want to buy one now and then in a short time "needing" to upgrade again.
    Do I settle for the Rocket? It's more than capable, even though it only has heat exchanger and vibration pump.
    Do I get the Profitec Pro 500? Also a heat exchanger and vibration pump, but has better internals.
    What about the ECM Technika?
    How about the Profitec 600? Only $200 more than the Technika, but you get dual boiler!
    Maybe there's a machine you think is even better value for money?

    What's your advice to minimize/prolong the upgraditis itch?

    Cheers,
    Bob.


  • #2
    Well I am happy with my BFC Hx machine. The only thing I would like if I was in the market would be one with a durable rotary pump as the vibrating ULKA pumps seem to have a limited life. The rotary pump on my 1997 commercial Brasilia Portofino is still going strong.

    Comment


    • #3
      What's your advice to minimize/prolong the upgraditis itch?
      Do your homework, buy what you want, and then stay away from internet forums.

      Comment


      • Ted2013
        Ted2013 commented
        Editing a comment
        Yeah that might cure your upgraditis itch for a while

      • prh
        prh commented
        Editing a comment
        Agreed - I don't believe that there is actually a permanent cure.

    • #4
      I would go the ECM. Quiet rotary pump instead of a vibratory pump of the others and from a personal point of view I love the joystick controls for the steam and water. Given you drink mainly milk drinks I don't think you need dual boiler as you can still pull a shot and steam at the same time. The ECM's are rock solid reliable and I think look classier then the Rocket or Profitec. If you go down the ECM path I would also suggest getting the flow control device pre installed. That opened up a whole new world of flow profiling and flavors for me. Watch the Whole Latte Love youtube videos and you'll see what I mean. Jetblack espresso can install that for you but you can of course get that later and is easy to install.
      I would ignore that throw away comment above about staying away from internet forums. I've learnt so much from this site. All of my purchases have been based on information gained from this site including machines, grinders, roasters and accessories. Keep asking questions and the helpful people on this site will respond. Occasionally you get unproductive comments.

      Comment


      • MxD
        MxD commented
        Editing a comment
        As an owner of the ECM Technika with flow control I agree with all of the above. I wouldn't recommend having the valve installed at purchase though, it's not for everyone. Get to know your machine first, establish a workflow, then if you feel the urge to experiment with profiling further down the track it's a 5 minute job to screw one on. Mine came from Jetblack and they were a pleasure to deal with. If you do end up going down the profiling path make sure you've got a capable grinder, especially if you're using aftermarket baskets (VST, etc.). Oh and don't pay any attention to the thread on here complaining about the machine's steaming capability. There is no need to replace the standard tip or crank up the PID, you just need to practice and adjust your technique to suit the machine. It makes perfectly textured milk once you have it worked out.

    • #5
      Originally posted by barri View Post
      Quiet rotary pump instead of a vibratory pump
      The reviews seem to note that the vibration pumps on the Profitec is extremely quiet.

      Originally posted by barri View Post
      Given you drink mainly milk drinks I don't think you need dual boiler
      That's my feeling too. I'm just wondering if I up my game in time, whether the heat exchanger will be adequate. And also, how many cups of frothing before it needs a break for the temperature to catch up (for those rare occasions we have guests).

      Originally posted by barri View Post
      The ECM's are rock solid reliable and I think look classier...
      The Rocket looks snazzy, maybe a bit on the yuppie side. I'm way past that age, with "classic" being a nicer term for old. I think I'm leaning towards the ECM.

      The ECM seems to have gone up a couple of hundred since I last month.
      I'm based in Vic. How is Jetblack in terms of warranty for interstate?

      Originally posted by barri View Post
      I would ignore that throw away comment above about staying away from internet forums..
      It's all good. All tongue in cheek I'm sure.

      Comment


      • Dimal
        Dimal commented
        Editing a comment
        And also, how many cups of frothing before it needs a break for the temperature to catch up (for those rare occasions we have guests).
        If the machine is set up properly, as many as you can until your arm gets tired holding the milk pitcher...

      • barri
        barri commented
        Editing a comment
        As Mal said you can make as many milk drinks in a row without waiting. I've had dinner parties making at least 10 in a row without a break. I believe rotary pumps are more reliable as well as being quieter but then again I haven't heard too many cases of failing vibration pumps. Also there are ECM dealers in Victoria so just google the models you're interested in. BTW I'm also in Vic and I've had items sent from Jetblack and their service and advise is excellent and they are a coffeesnob sponsor so they should give you a good deal. You need to check those sponsors and talk to them about your choices. Obviously breakdowns are easier to manage from a Vic dealer but then again you don't hear about too many failures from Rocket, ECM or profitec or you would be very unlucky.

      • johnthepom0
        johnthepom0 commented
        Editing a comment
        There are ECM resellers in Melbourne inc CS sponsor

    • #6
      Since someone earlier thought I wasn't being helpful, let me now resume with a more appropriate tone. ?

      1) If you are thinking about machines with an E61 group, be sure that you understand the maintenance requirements. Plenty of info on this on CS.
      2) Also, with machines of the calibre under consideration, you will also want to pay attention to your water quality. The main concerns would be hardness (propensity for scale build-up) and chlorides (of concern for stainless steel boilers vis a vis corrosion). In this issue, I think you need to read widely and draw your own conclusions based on your specific locality and context.

      Hope that evens the score!

      Comment


      • barri
        barri commented
        Editing a comment
        That's better!

    • #7
      I have used the QUOTE link at the bottom of the page to reach out to the sponsors. Hopefully I'll get a response soon.
      Thank you all for your comments.

      Comment


      • #8
        My experience is that while vibrating pumps (eg ULKA) work fine they don't seem to be as durable as quality rotary pumps. That biases me toward rotary pump machines. The noise has never worried me. Then maybe I am a bit deaf.

        Comment


        • SanderP
          SanderP commented
          Editing a comment
          You can however purchase quite a few vibe pumps for the cost of a rotary.

          Cheers

        • Dimal
          Dimal commented
          Editing a comment
          Yep, probably about 30 years worth...

        • Ronin
          Ronin commented
          Editing a comment
          While this is true, silence is golden.
          I have a vibe pump but if buying again would get a rotary

      • #9
        I take the point but on the other hand the last time I looked at the local specialist shop in Canberra (admittedly last year) they were selling BFC machines with rotary pumps and a bigger boiler that did not seem that much more expensive than the the vibe pump one I own. I was thinking at the time if I upgraded I would get a rotary pump machine next time. However I must admit I am not sure these pumps are as reliable as the Procon pumps on commercial machines. I have had to replace the Ulka vibe pump on my BFC machine twice in the last 10 years but I have to admit it is not that difficult to do.

        Comment

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