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  • Bezzera Duo DE - anyone else having similar issues?

    I bought a Bezzera Duo DE last year. I'm going through two machines already, still under warranty. I use it at home, and we love our coffee so we make 7-8 cups a day. The machine is on for a few hours a day (we switch it off overnight) and I noticed it never went into sleep mode at any point. We've had it where you hear a 'pop' and the screen has gone blank. The power indicator light is on - no problems. But, the LCD screen stays 'dead' and I can't make any coffee - it seems the machine internals have died. I have the machine plumbed but that can't have anything to do with it.

    Anyone else having similar issues with their machine? I'm thinking this was too early a model for Bezzera to have gone to the market with - maybe it didn't go through enough testing?


  • #2
    Originally posted by Disappointed View Post
    I bought a Bezzera Duo DE last year. I'm going through two machines already, still under warranty. I use it at home, and we love our coffee so we make 7-8 cups a day. The machine is on for a few hours a day (we switch it off overnight) and I noticed it never went into sleep mode at any point. We've had it where you hear a 'pop' and the screen has gone blank. The power indicator light is on - no problems. But, the LCD screen stays 'dead' and I can't make any coffee - it seems the machine internals have died. I have the machine plumbed but that can't have anything to do with it.

    Anyone else having similar issues with their machine? I'm thinking this was too early a model for Bezzera to have gone to the market with - maybe it didn't go through enough testing?

    Have you spoken to the retailer from whom you purchased the machine?If so, what did they say? It would seem pretty clear that this is covered by warranty and Australian Consumer Law.

    Comment


    • Caffeinator
      Caffeinator commented
      Editing a comment
      Often when something goes pop, it's H2O and 230V having a discussion.

      Sometimes, it's a leak and at other times it can be an overfill caused by unsuitable water or when someone pours a cup of water, coffee or something else into a machine- and believe me, it happens way too frequently.

      I have seen machines with 1cm of congealed butter in the chassis (the cup warmer being the perfect place to soften butter) and charred kitchens set fire to when said butter and 230V disagreed.

      Agree with Barry that the first port of call is the retailer, not a 1 post bitch and gripe here as just like in some plane crashes, the ultimate cause is frequently pilot error.

      Hope you're up and running soon and perhaps you might come back with the diagnosis and outcome.

    • amberale
      amberale commented
      Editing a comment
      Actually Caff, in aviation circles it is almost never merely pilot error.
      For a start, aviation incident analysis is a blame free process as the desired outcome is preventing a repeat of the occurrence.
      Secondly they are based on the Reason or Swiss cheese model where a number of factor combine(or holes in the cheese slices line up) to enable an outcome.
      So a pilot may have made the error but training, fatigue, cockpit design, rostering, ill passengers, unforecast weather, etc may have all cntributed too the final outcome.
      Similarly, engineering/design of an espresso machine might take into account that someone not familiar with modern electrical items( grandmamma perhaps) might find that the wonderful warm shelf of that shiny machine is perfect to thaw her butter and it would have been fine if she wasn’t distracted by the grandchild she was baby sitting didn’t have croup and need extra care or if the electronics had been shielded.
      Even when it is user error contributed it is usually also design.
      I agree about contacting the seller but it appears that the OP has and one can understand them wanting to vent.

  • #3
    Originally posted by Disappointed View Post
    I bought a Bezzera Duo DE last year. I'm going through two machines already, still under warranty.
    By this statement, do you mean that your machine has been replaced twice by the retailer?

    If so, I would like to suggest an alternative course of action: get your electricity supply monitored by your power distribution company. At some point in time, we had to replace 2 microwave ovens in 3 years. This stopped when we asked the power distributor to monitor the supply. They admitted that the voltage was too high (as high as 256V) and made the appropriate adjustment. They will even pay for repairs to any appliances caused by their supply.

    Comment


    • #4
      Thanks for the feedback. I've been in touch with the retailer and I'm onto my second machine now. I had the electrician check the wiring and he certified it as ok. I'm a bit specific about maintaining my machine so we don't use it for anything other than a coffee purpose. I posted my disappointment here to see if others had the same experience - it's my last resort before pulling the plug on the machine with a refund and buying a different machine altogether

      Comment


      • lancruiser
        lancruiser commented
        Editing a comment
        An electrician won't be able to assure that your power supply voltage is within standard. You need to speak to your power distributor. If you don't know who your distributor is, ask your electricity retailer. You may suffer the same fate with your new machine if the power supply is problematic.

    • #5
      The problem could also be caused by other devices on the property sending a spike down the line. I can't tell you how many electronic devices I have had to replace for customers over the years because some other piece of equipment on the property, or even on a near-by property, has caused a power spike that killed their electronics. Causes have been traced to everything from simply a cheap motor sending out tons of RF that drove other electronics nuts, to killing spikes coming from air compressors, arc welders, large saws and drill presses that were on the owners property. Then there's off-property causes. Industrial equipment (Punch presses being a notorious cause in one area.) and old power lines missing their insulation with untrimmed trees around them that on windy days would contact them causing a nice big spark as the lines shorted to ground.

      The only way to eliminate an outside electrical source as the cause of the problem is to have a power conditioner (Basically a combination battery backup and high end surge protector.) installed between the device you want to protect and the outlet.


      Java "Don't assume the problem is with the machine" phile
      Toys! I must have new toys!!!

      Comment


      • #6
        Originally posted by Disappointed View Post
        Thanks for the feedback. I've been in touch with the retailer and I'm onto my second machine now. I had the electrician check the wiring and he certified it as ok. I'm a bit specific about maintaining my machine so we don't use it for anything other than a coffee purpose. I posted my disappointment here to see if others had the same experience - it's my last resort before pulling the plug on the machine with a refund and buying a different machine altogether
        When you get a machine you are happy with are you still going to be disappointed?

        Comment


        • #7
          Sorry to hear of your issues Disappointed.
          I have owned a Duo De for nearly 7 months now, and have had no issues whatsoever. I am very pleased with its performance thus far.
          Most times my machine is on 24/7. In my household we consume about a kilo of beans a week so the machine gets used often, and it has never faltered.
          The screen was a concern for me having read the issues with earlier models, but so far it would appear that they have rectified the earlier problem. I assume you have the later generation machine, post engineering updates, so you are either incredibly unlikely to get 2 dud machines or the earlier posters may be onto something regarding power issues or moisture ingress. There are a few other owners on this forum, perhaps some may join in with their feedback.

          Comment


          • #8
            I've had the Bezzera Duo DE for approx 14 months, wouldn't be without it. The machine is plugged into a Surge Protector as our power supply suffers a lot of spikes, which would be otherwise unnoticeable.

            It could be worth checking the Firmware version to ensure it is the latest. They are excellent machines. Hopefully you have an equally excellent service agent with your retailer. I found getting mine serviced, such as lubricating of joins etc made a very useful improvement. The surprising thing to me was how often the shower head gasket needs changing. This would depend how long you leave it on. Ours is on for around 10 hours a day and the gasket seems to need changing around 5 - 6 months as it becomes hard and brittle

            Comment


            • #9
              Have you tried a silicone gasket? https://www.casaespresso.com.au/cafe...-delivery.html

              Comment


              • quester
                quester commented
                Editing a comment
                Thank you L3n. Great idea but that link is to an E61 group head whereas the Bezzera Duo DE uses a 55ID x 8.1mm O-Ring gasket, as in this one: Commercial link removed as per Site Posting Policy
                I wish there was the silicone version. The heating elements in the Duo makes the neoprene rubber (I assume) brittle in short order. I am careful to just nip the portafilter into the group head enough to keep it warm without putting undo long term pressure on the O-Ring
                Last edited by Javaphile; 7 October 2021, 03:26 PM. Reason: Commercial link removed

            • #10
              Originally posted by quester View Post
              I've had the Bezzera Duo DE for approx 14 months, wouldn't be without it. The machine is plugged into a Surge Protector as our power supply suffers a lot of spikes, which would be otherwise unnoticeable.

              It could be worth checking the Firmware version to ensure it is the latest. They are excellent machines. Hopefully you have an equally excellent service agent with your retailer. I found getting mine serviced, such as lubricating of joins etc made a very useful improvement. The surprising thing to me was how often the shower head gasket needs changing. This would depend how long you leave it on. Ours is on for around 10 hours a day and the gasket seems to need changing around 5 - 6 months as it becomes hard and brittle
              That's interesting - I've had my DUO about 10 months and haven't needed to change the head gasket yet, and I also leave my machine on all day. However I don't use the auto-on timer so my machine goes to sleep after a period of time and therefore the head cools down considerably. Maybe this helps preserve the gasket?

              To the OP, my DUO has not missed a beat. It's a great machine, excellent quality, and a joy to use. It's my fourth Bezzera machine over the past 25 years. In my experience, they make quality gear.

              Comment


              • #11
                I've had my DUO DE now for 20 months. It is brilliant. No issues at all. I run the head at 94C and the machine is on from 8am to 4pm every day with stand-by not set. I have not had any degradation of the group head seal and have not needed to change it yet. No idea why others would have the seal become brittle so quickly. Are you forcing the portafilter too hard? I don't need to force the portafilter beyond the 90 degree mark.

                Comment


                • quester
                  quester commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Thanks for this post Mikef. I bet if you tried to remove the group head gasket seal you would find it brittle whereas the new one is really flexible. After 6 months I can't remove mine without effectively chopping it out. The machine is on at 94C for 10 hrs also. (We use it for cups of tea during the day after our morning coffee fixes) I leave the portafilter in all day but only just pinched enough so it doesn't fall out but keeps warm. When pouring a brew I would tighten it to, say, 7 o'clock so, definitely not cranked right up. Over the course of a few months it needs tightening towards 6 o'clock ie straight on to the machine and eventually starts to leak if not firm enough, about which time I give up and replace a very brittle gasket.

                  On saying that, I'm conscious to not over tighten but it is one of the only explanations for the difference in length of gasket life. btw, the group head O-ring, accessible when removing the three screws holding the heated head on, remains flexible and fine and hasn't needed changing.
                  From memory you were tending to brew single shot espressos. I'm tending to 18.5gm in the Bezzera 16gm basket (and still have a gap whereby the screw head makes a small indent. Tamped 15lbs, circa 28 to 32 secs for around 38 - 40gms out. My current drink would be to run two of these together. ie a quad shot. Perhaps this leads to much more pressure on the gasket and needing to be tighter?

                • PeterW
                  PeterW commented
                  Editing a comment
                  quester - thanks for posting how you are using your machine.

                  When I first acquired my DUO DE, I also left the group handle in the head in as that is what I always had done on my previous machine, a Magica (E61). However on the DUO, I found that the group handle seemed to weld itself to the head gasket and nearly pulled the gasket right out when I removed the handle. So I stopped doing that and now just leave the handle on top of the machine to keep warm.

                  Just wondering if leaving the handle in is what is causing your gasket to get hard?

              • #12
                .... my machine is on from 6.30am to 4pm so at operating temperature for 9.5 hours and no brittle group head seal issues for 20 months

                Comment


                • quester
                  quester commented
                  Editing a comment
                  mikef PeterW I was off site a while and missed these last two comments. I am leaving my machine on the same time as you, Mike, and have now taken to leaving the portafilters on top of the machine to keep warm then giving a quick flush before filling. Like PeterW, I was finding the basket getting to a stage of sticking to the gasket when left in and the gasket continuing to harden prematurely.
                  It does seem that leaving the portafilter(PF) engaged, to keep it hot, is keeping the gasket too hot. As the PFs were only just nipped in, to prevent them dislodging at rest, the gasket was definitely not being compressed. Time will tell whether this approach lengthens the life of the gasket.
                  What I don't get is that the O-ring in the group head remains absolutely fine and yet is the same material and temperature. Go figure.
                  I also tried that Bezzera gasket that is from another model which has a squarish profile. It didn't seal anywhere near as well, made the basket sit too proud of the shower screen and was much harder work to locate the portafilter. I persisted for about a month and went back to the proprietary gasket.
                  Would idealy like to have a Scace device run over the machine to confirm the accuracy of the pressure and temperature gauges. I don't think they are too far out. (Just wondering whether mikef's different experience might be explained by varying actual group head temps as I set mine at 94degrees too.
                  Having had my machine for 18mths now, still love it and have complete confidence that it can consistently produce great espresso and would never go back to a machine with an E61 grouphead

                • PeterW
                  PeterW commented
                  Editing a comment
                  quester - my DUO is about 15 months old now and the gasket is still fine. The machine has been operating flawlessly for me. I do a short clean cycle each night after the last cup has been poured with just the blind basket (i.e. no cleaning powder) and I do a proper clean with powder monthly. Like you, I would not want to go back to an E61 now. The Bezzera group head is great.

              • #13
                I have tried a more 'conventional' group seal for curiosity and did not like it. I also bought a secondhand BZ07 for our travelling/holiday machine and noticed that the previous owner and inserted a conventional seal and it was awful. I replaced it with a Bezzera o-ring seal. The genuine Bezzera o-ring type is far superior. It has a soft engagement that appears to lock magnificently once pressure rises with the extraction. I keep the portafilter in the group head to keep warm but only lightly engaged and have no stickiness.

                Comment


                • #14
                  BTW I am convinced that the BZ head is simply tremendous. It has very similar characteristics as a fully saturated head except that head heating is efficiently delivered electrically via two simple wires and embedded heating elements (with its own PID) rather than hugely expensive head heating via a massive water jacket. Fast heat up in the morning and rock solid temperature. While the E61 head is fantastic, I would never go back to it. BZ head is far superior.

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    Re the Bezzera Duo DE, my brother wants to buy this machine and it looks great. But his concern is long term the LCD display, not in 1 or 2 years, but in 6 or 7 years if it fails and even longer, lets say 10 years will the LCD fade/fail etc, as in general machines like these can easily last 20 years. I am sure the water issue has been sorted, but how many LCD screens from 15 years ago still shine and work at 100% from new. What will an old stock LCD replacement cost. The warranty is short. But I know the LCD screen issue has been discussed before.

                    Comment

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