Bezzera Duo DE - anyone else having similar issues?

[quester]

Have you tried a silicone gasket? https://www.casaespresso.com.au/cafe...-delivery.html

Yeh!! Thank you level3ninja! The service agent, who also has owns the Duo DE (great endorsement ;-) ) put the similar silicone gasket in that you mentioned. I had tried this before but, being thicker, it was disconcertingly harder to engage the portafilter and, not wishing to wrench the PF too hard, was prone to leaking between the basket and holder, so I went back to the O-Ring type. However, this time, I persevered, got used to the force required and it bedded in and settled down. It is lasting really well. Definitely the way to go, especially when if you, like me, leave the machine on all day and use it for coffees and teas throughout the day.

[PeterW]

Re the Bezzera Duo DE, my brother wants to buy this machine and it looks great. But his concern is long term the LCD display, not in 1 or 2 years, but in 6 or 7 years if it fails and even longer, lets say 10 years will the LCD fade/fail etc, as in general machines like these can easily last 20 years. I am sure the water issue has been sorted, but how many LCD screens from 15 years ago still shine and work at 100% from new. What will an old stock LCD replacement cost. The warranty is short. But I know the LCD screen issue has been discussed before.

I'm not sure anyone here could answer that because the machine hasn't been available that long. From memory it was introduced around the middle of 2018? So the oldest machines would be about 4 years old.

As for lasting 20 years, that might be a stretch, although I don't know what the life of other components such as the control unit might be.

[MarcECM]

Re the Bezzera Duo DE, my brother wants to buy this machine and it looks great. But his concern is long term the LCD display, not in 1 or 2 years, but in 6 or 7 years if it fails and even longer, lets say 10 years will the LCD fade/fail etc, as in general machines like these can easily last 20 years. I am sure the water issue has been sorted, but how many LCD screens from 15 years ago still shine and work at 100% from new. What will an old stock LCD replacement cost. The warranty is short. But I know the LCD screen issue has been discussed before.

[mikef]

BTW I am convinced that the BZ head is simply tremendous. It has very similar characteristics as a fully saturated head except that head heating is efficiently delivered electrically via two simple wires and embedded heating elements (with its own PID) rather than hugely expensive head heating via a massive water jacket. Fast heat up in the morning and rock solid temperature. While the E61 head is fantastic, I would never go back to it. BZ head is far superior.

[mikef]

I have tried a more 'conventional' group seal for curiosity and did not like it. I also bought a secondhand BZ07 for our travelling/holiday machine and noticed that the previous owner and inserted a conventional seal and it was awful. I replaced it with a Bezzera o-ring seal. The genuine Bezzera o-ring type is far superior. It has a soft engagement that appears to lock magnificently once pressure rises with the extraction. I keep the portafilter in the group head to keep warm but only lightly engaged and have no stickiness.

[PeterW]

quester - my DUO is about 15 months old now and the gasket is still fine. The machine has been operating flawlessly for me. I do a short clean cycle each night after the last cup has been poured with just the blind basket (i.e. no cleaning powder) and I do a proper clean with powder monthly. Like you, I would not want to go back to an E61 now. The Bezzera group head is great.

[quester]

mikef PeterW I was off site a while and missed these last two comments. I am leaving my machine on the same time as you, Mike, and have now taken to leaving the portafilters on top of the machine to keep warm then giving a quick flush before filling. Like PeterW, I was finding the basket getting to a stage of sticking to the gasket when left in and the gasket continuing to harden prematurely.
It does seem that leaving the portafilter(PF) engaged, to keep it hot, is keeping the gasket too hot. As the PFs were only just nipped in, to prevent them dislodging at rest, the gasket was definitely not being compressed. Time will tell whether this approach lengthens the life of the gasket.
What I don't get is that the O-ring in the group head remains absolutely fine and yet is the same material and temperature. Go figure.
I also tried that Bezzera gasket that is from another model which has a squarish profile. It didn't seal anywhere near as well, made the basket sit too proud of the shower screen and was much harder work to locate the portafilter. I persisted for about a month and went back to the proprietary gasket.
Would idealy like to have a Scace device run over the machine to confirm the accuracy of the pressure and temperature gauges. I don't think they are too far out. (Just wondering whether mikef's different experience might be explained by varying actual group head temps as I set mine at 94degrees too.
Having had my machine for 18mths now, still love it and have complete confidence that it can consistently produce great espresso and would never go back to a machine with an E61 grouphead

[PeterW]

quester - thanks for posting how you are using your machine.

When I first acquired my DUO DE, I also left the group handle in the head in as that is what I always had done on my previous machine, a Magica (E61). However on the DUO, I found that the group handle seemed to weld itself to the head gasket and nearly pulled the gasket right out when I removed the handle. So I stopped doing that and now just leave the handle on top of the machine to keep warm.

Just wondering if leaving the handle in is what is causing your gasket to get hard?

[quester]

Thanks for this post Mikef. I bet if you tried to remove the group head gasket seal you would find it brittle whereas the new one is really flexible. After 6 months I can't remove mine without effectively chopping it out. The machine is on at 94C for 10 hrs also. (We use it for cups of tea during the day after our morning coffee fixes) I leave the portafilter in all day but only just pinched enough so it doesn't fall out but keeps warm. When pouring a brew I would tighten it to, say, 7 o'clock so, definitely not cranked right up. Over the course of a few months it needs tightening towards 6 o'clock ie straight on to the machine and eventually starts to leak if not firm enough, about which time I give up and replace a very brittle gasket.

On saying that, I'm conscious to not over tighten but it is one of the only explanations for the difference in length of gasket life. btw, the group head O-ring, accessible when removing the three screws holding the heated head on, remains flexible and fine and hasn't needed changing.
From memory you were tending to brew single shot espressos. I'm tending to 18.5gm in the Bezzera 16gm basket (and still have a gap whereby the screw head makes a small indent. Tamped 15lbs, circa 28 to 32 secs for around 38 - 40gms out. My current drink would be to run two of these together. ie a quad shot. Perhaps this leads to much more pressure on the gasket and needing to be tighter?

[mikef]

.... my machine is on from 6.30am to 4pm so at operating temperature for 9.5 hours and no brittle group head seal issues for 20 months

[mikef]

I've had my DUO DE now for 20 months. It is brilliant. No issues at all. I run the head at 94C and the machine is on from 8am to 4pm every day with stand-by not set. I have not had any degradation of the group head seal and have not needed to change it yet. No idea why others would have the seal become brittle so quickly. Are you forcing the portafilter too hard? I don't need to force the portafilter beyond the 90 degree mark.

[quester]

Thank you L3n. Great idea but that link is to an E61 group head whereas the Bezzera Duo DE uses a 55ID x 8.1mm O-Ring gasket, as in this one: Commercial link removed as per Site Posting Policy
I wish there was the silicone version. The heating elements in the Duo makes the neoprene rubber (I assume) brittle in short order. I am careful to just nip the portafilter into the group head enough to keep it warm without putting undo long term pressure on the O-Ring

[PeterW]

I've had the Bezzera Duo DE for approx 14 months, wouldn't be without it. The machine is plugged into a Surge Protector as our power supply suffers a lot of spikes, which would be otherwise unnoticeable.

It could be worth checking the Firmware version to ensure it is the latest. They are excellent machines. Hopefully you have an equally excellent service agent with your retailer. I found getting mine serviced, such as lubricating of joins etc made a very useful improvement. The surprising thing to me was how often the shower head gasket needs changing. This would depend how long you leave it on. Ours is on for around 10 hours a day and the gasket seems to need changing around 5 - 6 months as it becomes hard and brittle

That's interesting - I've had my DUO about 10 months and haven't needed to change the head gasket yet, and I also leave my machine on all day. However I don't use the auto-on timer so my machine goes to sleep after a period of time and therefore the head cools down considerably. Maybe this helps preserve the gasket?

To the OP, my DUO has not missed a beat. It's a great machine, excellent quality, and a joy to use. It's my fourth Bezzera machine over the past 25 years. In my experience, they make quality gear.

[level3ninja]

Have you tried a silicone gasket? https://www.casaespresso.com.au/cafe...-delivery.html

[quester]

I've had the Bezzera Duo DE for approx 14 months, wouldn't be without it. The machine is plugged into a Surge Protector as our power supply suffers a lot of spikes, which would be otherwise unnoticeable.

It could be worth checking the Firmware version to ensure it is the latest. They are excellent machines. Hopefully you have an equally excellent service agent with your retailer. I found getting mine serviced, such as lubricating of joins etc made a very useful improvement. The surprising thing to me was how often the shower head gasket needs changing. This would depend how long you leave it on. Ours is on for around 10 hours a day and the gasket seems to need changing around 5 - 6 months as it becomes hard and brittle