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Crem one profiler - machine thoughts from owners

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  • Schultzy
    replied
    I ended up with the ECM Synchronica ! and i could not be happier !, the flavor profiles using the manual profiler is amazing. love the look of it too. I scored a 2nd hand Zenith Club grinder, which does a great job, though timed grinding is annoying.

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  • cuprajake
    replied
    I love the idea of a decent, and nearly bought one. A couple of times but that sound would drive me insane. Tickticktickticktick

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  • Schultzy
    replied
    I think the Decent and the way the company is marketing them in the open , is a great warts and all way of doing things. I just see the intricate parts and mess of wires and it looks like trouble in the long term to me.(just my opinion) I remember when Commercial Rheem gas Hot Water Heaters were gas with a pilot light. now they have an electronic control box worth $400 that is a throw away part. Before, if you lost power , you still had gas and hot water, now you lose power and you have nothing. yes technology is great, when it works, but I like the simple layout and electronics of the ECM Synchronica, less chance of things going wrong, and not too expensive to replace a PID. But If someone was to gift me a Decent, I wouldn't say no 😉

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  • shadow745
    replied
    No hostility, just calling it as I see it. Yes I'm well aware that manufacturers are dealing with COVID related issues and it's getting to be an old excuse to say the least. I can understand a company not wanting to rest on laurels and seek more improvement, but at the expense of time and money wasted along the way as well as decreased sales doesn't make it worth it for the most part. The last few years have been hilarious watching all the hoopla over what machine will give the most control, what grinder will be best at single dosing with minimal retention and so on... some people are never totally satisfied and are simply missing out on what's right in front of them the entire time.

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  • LeroyC
    replied
    That seems to be a very odd sort of hostility towards Decent. You do realise that all the stuff they talk about in regards to issues with parts and production is something that is a common experience for all manufacturers? The difference with Decent is that they’re an open book so you hear and see it all whereas most other companies just present the shiny facade of a complete, finished product at the end of development or re-development. I don’t own a Decent and probably never will and there’s things about the machine and the company that aren’t for me, but I do like that they’ve done things a little differently from the start instead of just same-same like everyone else.

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  • shadow745
    replied
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post

    And! won't be an old model the day you receive it.🙄
    That's the damn truth as they seem scrambled to keep things in order. Seem to blame it on parts suppliers mainly due to Candyass COVID, etc. What's up with the Pro or the XL or the V1.15 that will be V1.55556 in 3 months? Then they talk about not being able to keep up with orders. If more focus would be put on what's available NOW instead of what might be in the future then they should get off their asses and figure out a better production system.

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  • shadow745
    replied
    Originally posted by Budgiesmuggler View Post
    Ya know what? I have seen the inside. If you go back to one of my earlier posts you’ll see i was looking at the Crem and went to see it. And it confirmed to me that the decent was in all ways superior. Crem is essentially the e61 design by faema in the 60s, but with a cord out the side. It’s not temp stable, can’t tell you the temp at the group, can’t temp profile, can’t flow profile.

    But they’re trying to compete in the pressure profiling market... by a cord coming our the side and a USB with stuff they you can’t see without plugging it into your computer. Now they could have networked it and that would have made it somewhat user friendly. But they went with a with a 2000s IT solution (the latest laptop supplied by my work didn’t even have a USB port).

    When James Hoffman is doing coffee experiments it’s on a decent. When Jonathan Digne does his espresso research it’s on a decent. When Scott Rao travels he takes a decent. Socratic a coffee and espresso hustle are doing their work on the decent.

    there are a number of roasters around Australia there are profiling their coffee on the decent, and then supplying the profile alongside the roast. Means you can extract it as the roaster intends.

    But a number on here seem so butthurt for some reason I don’t understand. There are no issues with the machine. Yes the initial versions got superseded but decent allowed all of them to be upgraded for free (show me another company they does that) and they’re now not iterating the design for a few years. They also have local support.
    Why should anybody give a damn as to what those coffee nerds do anyway? Way too many fanboyz that just have to practice what they preach when I find them to be quite a joke for the most part.

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  • alexcs
    replied
    Budgiesmuggler doing the crem quite a disservice there! Ah well I’ve had mine for a year and thoroughly enjoy it. I didn’t buy a decent as it was out of my price range at the time and thus not directly comparable.

    I still think for the price I would buy the crem again over a paddle profiler e61 regardless of build quality. Haven’t seen the Vbm in person, I’m sure that would be worth looking at also.

    My future machines will like be a decent and/or a lever, but very much happy with this one for now.

    Leave a comment:


  • barri
    commented on 's reply
    The Decent has been out for about 3 or 4 years now and longer for many of the beta machines and has 1000s of users with minimal problems. I'd call that reliable. Even my old VBM Domobar and Rocker Giotto had problems in the first year. I've had my Decent for a year now without any faults and would buy again in a heartbeat.As for the plastic tubing, it isn't a HX machine with a boiler. Water is heated by a completely different mechanism. The only faults I've seen on the tubing and they are minor and infrequent are some of the connections.
    Last edited by barri; 12 May 2021, 03:53 PM.

  • barri
    commented on 's reply
    Agreed saeco!. I feel the "too much electronics" argument is now well and truly out dated. Nearly everything has "extra" electronics now including coffee machines

  • Schultzy
    commented on 's reply
    I guess we will know in a few years, the use of plastic tubing on the boilers does concern me, you cannot beat copper or stainless for longevity in heated water.

  • Budgiesmuggler
    commented on 's reply
    Profiling is really cool and definitely worth exploring.

    The Decent allows the user to do flow or pressure profiling. The initial thinking was that flow profiling would be more consistent. But it’s incredibly sensitive to grind (as flow square root of pressure). So small changes in grind changes pressure at the puck, which restricts flow, and increases pressure, and then you’ve gone from 9 bar to 12 bar in under a second. Hence my reservation about being able to do this consistently in a manual way.

    My daily driver profile (light roasts) is a blooming espresso shot. Pump about 50ml of water into the puck. Then the water stops until pressure at the puck reaches 3 bar (indicating that the puck is fully saturated as it’s restricting water). Then pull shot as normal at 9 bar (total shot time is around 60sec). This increases water contact with beans helping to extract light beans, and reduces channeling as grinds are saturated and expanded in the basket before being hit with 9 bar pressure. This is a mix of pressure and flow profiling.

  • saeco_user
    commented on 's reply
    That's why I'm wondering if a machine like the Decent won't end up being very reliable. Electronics components aren't inherently any more unreliable than mechanical ones (probably the opposite). If the design, engineering and component selection takes into account longevity the machine can be expected to be reliable. From most owners accounts I've read, the Decent philosophy is very different to that of Breville / Sunbeam etc.

  • EspressoAdventurer
    replied
    Originally posted by saeco_user View Post
    You're probably right, but if they can build a helicopter to fly on Mars (out of mostly consumer components), they should be able to build a coffee machine with electronics that doesn't break down. It may or may not be the Decent but its not impossible.
    They CAN....but it doesn't pay !
    After all brand identification, reputation, consumer recall, and Corporate Marketing take precedence.

    Continued consumer repeat purchases (returning to the well of profit) means that 'component lifecycling' planned obsolescence and design redundancy win out .....hands down winner actually.

    Did somebody say .... Sunbeam / Breville coffee machines........'Er.....KFC !
    Last edited by EspressoAdventurer; 11 May 2021, 12:14 PM.

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  • Grumpybarista
    commented on 's reply
    To be honest, I have no experience with manual pressure profiling. I did see DaveC install a lelit flow valve device on an ACS minima and it seems to work rather well. See below links to the flow device install and espresso shot.

    https://youtu.be/IvnESAbUTSw
    https://youtu.be/-CnKBSBSudM

    There is a dedicated ECM flow device kit available and I think this is a good option to have a play around and fully reversible.
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