The MP conical valve is a crude excuse in my opinion. You have a whole parts bin fill of Strada MP groups because nobody wants one.
"I know what we'll do...Let's put them into the GS3 and pass it off as a pressure profiler... It won't have a variable speed pump though. We'll just use the rotary and dump the unused flow into the drip tray. The machine already has a pressure gauge, but nar- let's use another one on the group cap instead because that's what we did on the Strada multigroup".
When they built the current MP conical, they should/could have built a GS3 EMP. They probably could have sold it at pretty much the same price as well if they wanted to. Fortunately we have @coffeemachinist in Australia to teach them how to build a real machine. Watch and learn LM.
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La Marzocco GS3 AV vs MP vs Linea Mini
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Yes i believe the mp is a lpropeelever machine unlike the mini. Allowing you full control of the shot.
The mini with the mods though is from what I see very good indeed, I'm just not a huge fan of its looks..I much Prefer the gs3
That's a shame about the you needing 15amp circuit. Not sure I'd want the experience of doing that at home on top of the cost of the machine. Would rule one out for me also
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Thanks John
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The MP has proper lever operated pre-infusion (not lever operated solenoid for the pump like the standard mini)?
The reason I thought a mini might be a good path is the lower price point of used models and the ability to mod in pre-infusion that can be tweaked but is very much seamlessly incorporated into making a brew. I don't want to have to do a magic dance to pull every shot. The GS3 looks 100% better though haha.
I'm actually in close contact with SR over the You as it looks to be a very nice machine. Requires 15A to operate which could be a problem for me and there is no guarantee of a 10A model (though I am told it is being investigated given US market interest as well... likely with a switch to operate brew or steam).
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as an owner of the AV, i can tell you not to bother with the pre infusion settings, as they result in nothing better in the cup IMHO
If you want to play around go the MP or as you say the linea mini with mods, or the decent if that floats your boat. Another option coming from the giotto would be to stick with the rocket brand and go the R9 one, or if you can hold off, wait and see what the sanremo you is like when its finally available
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A question of owners... I'm replacing a Giotto HX machine and im curious as to the elements of the GS3 that really elevates the espresso quality on a per cup basis - not just capacity to produce shot after shot.
Are there defining differences between the AV model and the manual model? I'm unclear if the pre-infusion is different or tuneable on one but not the other and it seems a point of shot production that people admire about this model?
My altrernative option to this to consider of current models would be the mini with some of the recommended mods. I thought that might be a more accessible and cost effective step using used machine (also given they are more available in the used market)?
Thoughts and advice?
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For the crime of using WW beans and misrepresenting it as "coffee". ... you are hereby sentenced to hand your machine over to appropriate holding for 10yrs. Naturally I'm the appropriate holding authority :P.Originally posted by mrgray View PostWW beans is unforgivable - i am working on rectifying this situation (have ordered from Andy). behmor is no more after it errored itself out of existence one day.
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Thank you to the owners who have shared here - super helpful input
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I have been considering a profile machine. I bought the VBM Super Digital and was unimpressed by its quality at its price point. I liken it to Breville with the cheap parts used. Returned it and kept hunting around. Now I'm unsure if I want profiling or simply a machine that will do preinfusion and give a much nicer extraction than my old Giotto Hx unit.
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WW beans is unforgivable - i am working on rectifying this situation (have ordered from Andy). behmor is no more after it errored itself out of existence one day.
i did want to note i have had the 6 mm gliceur mod thing done (remote installed by Mr Bond using my hands). it did make a difference to consistency. it let me get away with a kony-e and almost no attention to detail. good stuff.
also i realise now the Linea is so good (presumably aided by mods) that i was down to 14g basket with it no sweat making average coffee but beautiful pucks!
14g basket with slightly stale coffee with GS3 is a challenge. even with a decent grinder. in truth unless the coffee is pulverised to dust, very different to control that beastly pressure when pump comes on.
i was talking about my brief time with a cremina last night and remembered how forgiving its deeper baskets were.
so today i applied that to GS3 and 21g basket is much more forgiving and produced some truly wonderful stuff this morning.
have had to change out 4 hole steam wand. it just vaporises instantaneously the kind of milk volume i need for a 150 ml cup flat white. using single hole today (wink) and got a lovely result.
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mrgray - normally ricks mod includes adding a 6mm restrictor which slows water flow compared to the 8 that LM fit standard, this may make them more forgiving (compared to the GS3) as you "smash" the puck with less water flow initially, I also think he does some other stuff to the water chamber to aid in slower ramp-up to pressure (could be wrong)
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Agree with John A above. Congrats on a great setup!
But Mr Gray......W/W beans ??
Whatever are you thinking?
Deserves Andy's or your own from the Behmore....
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the AV is not for pressure profiling, forget it. I have never bothered with it, and never will, and everything you read about it will tell you the same.
But to me everything else about it is perfect. Program in your volumetric buttons, and you dont have to ever worry about using scales under it. Also, once you have dialled in your grind perfectly, the timer on the volumetric will let you know if your grind needs adjusting. I love mine and have no desire to ever change.
I am not one for playing around, so love the simplicity and consistency of the AV. Partner it with a great grinder and you are in coffee heaven
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Just today i have picked up a brand new GS3 AV from Coffee Parts here in Sydney. It is replacing my Linea Mini. So I have only spent the last 3 hours on the AV but I figured I might chip in.
My Linea Mini was modified by Mr Bond. This is relevant because the mod he does gives you the ability to use paddle to "pre-infuse" at a lower pressure prior to giving it the full beans. Before the mod the analog paddle talks a talk it cannot walk - for in truth, it is binary 0 or 9 bar).
I have had the machine for ages. In that time it has been serviced but it is not impossible it would benefit from a service. relevant context since i am going to compare its performance with the new GS3.
Anyway the GS3 seems to be straining at the leash compared to the Linea. I thought I would be able to pre-infuse on GS3. In truth it seems quite poor for this. Pump on. Pump off. Puck smashed and unhinged from its moorings. I have poured some shockers today. But once I got it "dialed" in, it is very impressive. One has to really make sure that the grinding, distribution and tamping is done perfect. The AV is not here for your pre-infusion party*. It fair nails the puck it really does. i used a much finer grind for same weight with GS3 versus Linea. I presume this doesn't make sense unless the Linea is running a lower pressure and hence my comment above about a service.
Mind you I have been using Woolworths Lavazza Crema Gusto much to my shame. I think it is a tad stale and finding that sweet spot is a fraught enterprise even with a decent grinder (EK43). If I had my Behmor I'd cook up some fresh stuff and I am sure I could do much better and with more room for error.
But when it is right you push the button and you get what you are after and it is a flavour extractor! A substantially better coffee (eventually) than via the Linea I thought. Milk frothed with finer bubbles and noticeably silkier milk. Coffee better extracted. Wonderful. It looked quite different even in the cup. And of course once you are setup it gets real easy.
Re: broader issue of profiling - I was very attracted to this idea and hence the LM mod. Prior to that I had Cremina so I could get the right profile. i followed the development of the Decent and whilst being appalled by its disgusting Theranos-like aesthetics I was also fascinated by the profiles! I was obsessed.
But what I see now thru my wiser eyes is that to enjoy coffee I need to be as bean centric as i can be. So finer points of technique for me are a diversion from the fundamental and perhaps personally more interesting thing: coffee beans that are really wonderfully roasted and make amazing coffee. if i had the beans nailed down the profiling might be a nice add on. but i am not there yet and so i have simplified and tried to refocus. now i have a grinder which is single dosing so i can try different beans in small quantities (kony-e not great for that) and i have a one button press machine that gives me specific volume of espresso. i feel i am removing variables and that is a way to better coffee.
I find i need to really gee myself up every 6 months with coffee otherwise i can really start making some terrible stuff! need to keep visiting a cafe and seeing what is actually possible. need to keep trying beans and thinking about that perfect cup.
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Disclaimer - I love my spring lever machine.
Can't comment on the Alex specifically (I have the Profitec Pro 800) and it certainly is possible to get consistent shots. The only difference pull to pull is the preinfusion time. There is also a PID for control of boiler temp/pressure but I don't tend to play with that much.
My routine is like this:
Pull lever, hit 'on' for my scales to zero the cup, put cup under portafilter, lower lever.
It's about 5 seconds to do all that. And it makes it pretty consistent but I find the retention in my grinder makes a larger difference than an extra half second or so preinfusion.
Also I don't think the Alex has an inbuilt pressure monitoring at the group head (could be wrong here) but yes the spring is pretty consistent.
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Im actually quite attracted to the idea. I've been doing some experimentation with my Cafelat Robot and i've gotten some seriously amazing shots out of it. Im sure they can't compare but its the closest thing I have as a reference.Originally posted by YouSnooze View Post
To me this seems a simple equation with an easy answer - a lever machine (e.g. Alex Leva). Fulfills your brief entirely and then some (minimal maintenance, essentially noiseless, cheaper than LMs/R91 etc).
I always wonder how easy it is to be super consistent with a lever machine though. In the back of my mind i'm thinking the manual pull action will differ to some extent with each pull. What has your experience been? Also, out of interest, does the Alex Leva allow monitoring pressure at the group during pulls?
EDIT: Just watched a vid, makes sense. The mechanism is spring driven so super consistent i'd imagine.
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