Looking for a machine with fast warm up time. Preferably a really good, last more than 10 years machine. I've used a Breville db and a Decent and they both qualify as fast, but the Breville is now two years old and has served its purpose as a stopgap until I get a 'forever' machine. I can say 'forever' at my age and get away with it. I really like the sound of the LM GS3 but the LM LM has significantly quicker warm up... still 15 minutes plus though. I make between four and ten cups a day at three widely separated times so leaving a machine on all the time is not easy to justify... Is there another machine I'm missing that fits the bill? Or should I just get over myself and use a timer to put the machine on 30 minutes before I get up?
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Honestly just get a wifi smart plug.
Set it to turn on 30 mins to an hour before you normally get up. 30 minutes is plenty of time, but on the odd occasion you get up early it's still ready. Then you also have the app you can turn it on and off with in case you are out and think 'man, I would love a coffee when I get home'.
The other alternative is to leave it on all day - heating it up 4 times a day probably uses as much or more energy than just leaving it on. But I don't have evidence to back this up, just a hunch.
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Electrically-heated groups can give you a really quick warm-up time. It's why I bought a Bezzera BZ10. It is super convenient to go from cold to being ready to pull a shot in short order. It's not in the $3k+ category, but yes, it should last 10 years+. The strega also has an electrically-heated group, but I'm not sure of the warm up time (I don't own one).
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Your hunch is dead wrong, just so you know.Originally posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
The other alternative is to leave it on all day - heating it up 4 times a day probably uses as much or more energy than just leaving it on. But I don't have evidence to back this up, just a hunch.
The primary equation for heat loss is
Q = U * A * ΔT
This says the heat loss per unit time (power) is the product of the U value*, the boundary area and the temperature difference across the boundary. The heat loss (energy) over a period of time is the area under the curve AKA the integral of the function.
The system boundary is the outside of the boiler, including any insulation. Ignoring thermal expansion for now** we will take the area as being appoximately constant.
The heat loss is then a constant product of the total area between the curve of actual boiler temperature and external temperature plotted against time.
Logically, if it is allowed to heat to set point and cool it this area will be smaller than if it is kept at set point.
* The U value is the heat loss per unit area per degree, basically the inverse of the more familiar R value used in insulation calculations. Any variation is likely to increase the U value with increasing temperature difference due to changes in circulation patterns etc. so our approximation is an understatement.
** Since all the materials used all have a positive CTE, the expansion will slightly increase the heat loss at higher temperatures, so again our approximation above is an understatement of the actual difference.Last edited by Lyrebird; 1 June 2021, 08:31 PM.
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OK, I just read the article about the "experiment".
He presents a couple of results then makes a conclusion which is not justified by the results presented. He also cocks up his units, there's no such thing as a watt per hour, he meant a watt hour per hour or, as the rest of us call it, a watt.
I cannot show you how he arrived at his unjustified conclusions because he doesn't show his working but his primary assumption seems to be that if he turned the machine on again after two hours it would use the same amount of power to heat as it did the first time. This is obviously wrong because it will have lost less than 240 watt hours in that time by his own figures. The longer the time between turning it off and on the lower the net loss rate.
The results do a pretty good job of confirming my calculations: his static loss is 120 watts so the energy required to heat the machine up and make a couple of lattes is the other 310 watt hours used in the first two hours which is 1090 kJ. Subtract the energy for the lattes and we are in the same ballpark.
FWIW I leave my machine on in the mornings primarily because I don't want to have to wait for it to warm up properly before my second coffee.
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FWIW I also leave my machine on during the weekends from 5am to 12pm and weekdays its only on until 8am as I normally leave for work at about 7:15am. I also don't drink coffee in the evening as I am sensitive to caffeine and I can't sleep if I have coffee much after 1pm.
But even if I did drink coffee at night I wouldn't leave it on all day as I wouldn't feel comfortable having a pressurised appliance on unattended and not being within earshot (despite the risk of catastrophic failure being relatively low).
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I can vouch for the E1P’s fast heat up. Closer to 10 minutes in reality, which is probably because the 8 minute time requires 13amps, which we don’t get from a standard wall in Australia.Originally posted by sam678 View PostThe Prima Eagle One may also fit the bill with an 8 minute warm up time and energy efficient design.
Very good machine. Fast heat up. Pumps volumetrically dosed coffee out aaaaaaaaaaaaaalllll day long. Would recommend.
Only grievance is that you can’t turn it in with a timer, so it’s 10 minutes after you wake before you can have a coffee.
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Amberale, the only thing you have to control with the app is if you want to turn the steam pressure down from 2.5bars.
Everything else is done on the machine.
(Don’t get me wrong, also not a fan of apps! But thankfully I almost never use it!)
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While I understand that there will always be teething problems at the “Bleeding Edge” I don’t want a phone to have anything to do with my machinery.
Yes, I am a Luddite, but in my experience this does nothing but add an unnecessary level of potential failure.
The HB thread on the Eagle1 is littered with reports of problems associated with the App/firmware.
Some are design flaws, some are user flaws but still issues.
I understand that forum posts tend to be biased towards brickbats rather than bouquets as people have difficulties getting the best from their expensive new purchase but why complicate it by adding a third party participant(phone)?
I am interested in the OE-1 if/when it comes out but wary of the App/software aspect and may go the way of the Strietman to avoid it.
Sorry for the rant/thread drift.
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To work out a rough estimate of leaving-on cost:
Let's say the pressurestat on a machine cycles a 2100W element so that it turns on for 10 seconds every 2 minutes. Over 16 waking hours the element will be running for 16*60*10/2 = 4800s (1 hour 20 minutes), in addition to the initial heating period. That's going to rack up 1.33 * 2.1 = 2.8 kWh per day. Let's say you don't have solar and pay 35cents for a kWh, then that'll cost 87 cents a day. Which is $320 a year, to leave such a machine on for 16 hours a day (excluding the initial daily warm-up).
You'd need to substitute the actual cycle times for a GS3, but you get the idea. Good luck!
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Thanks for the heads up. I ordered one of these yesterday.Originally posted by sam678 View PostThe Prima Eagle One may also fit the bill with an 8 minute warm up time and energy efficient design.
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Congrats on the new machine!
James Hoffmann was involved in the development of the Prima One and has a review on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RXmIGgoYTE
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I have a Wemo connected to my VBM for this exact reason. It has worked out great for me. Especially when driving home and I know I want a coffee. I can turn on the machine before I head home and I know it is ready once I pull up to my garage.Originally posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View PostHonestly just get a wifi smart plug.
Set it to turn on 30 mins to an hour before you normally get up. 30 minutes is plenty of time, but on the odd occasion you get up early it's still ready. Then you also have the app you can turn it on and off with in case you are out and think 'man, I would love a coffee when I get home'.
The other alternative is to leave it on all day - heating it up 4 times a day probably uses as much or more energy than just leaving it on. But I don't have evidence to back this up, just a hunch.
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I've recently moved from an old Brugnetti HX machine to a Profitec Pro 300, which is a small dual boiler with ring group. It's very fast to warm up (10 minutes) and I'm getting much better results than I did with the HX. Very well built and o expect to get many years from it.
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