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  • Rotary Pump Machines with Smallest Width?

    Hi all,

    I'm currently looking for the quietest and smallest width espresso machine available.

    I live in a pigeon-hole apartment made of paper in Melbourne CBD, and whenever I make espresso in the morning in the kitchen, when my partner is over, it usually scares the bejeezuz out of him while he's asleep in the bedroom. I currently have Breville Barista Express.

    I have very limited counter space in terms of width - so the new machine has to be:
    1. Less than 29 cm width size - the smaller the better
    2. Rotary pump
    3. Shot timer
    4. Budget of <4000
    Click image for larger version

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    My grinder position is already flushed against the wall, and due to plug position, I have to put new machine next to the grinder.
    I need to leave around 5cm space from the kitchen sink so I can wash big pots and pans, hence the requirement for 29cm width or less.


    So far I've only encountered online Rocket Mozzafiato Type R which is 28cm - is this right? Some websites mentioned 32cm?
    Any other rotary machines that I might have missed?

    Thanks in advance.





  • #2
    The Rocket Mozzafiato R is 280 wide.

    https://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/...o-evoluzione-r

    The ECM Mechanika is 302 wide

    https://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/...anika-iv-profi

    For maximum space, you could go a quiet vibe pump - much quieter than your Breville - the Lelit Mara X at 220 wide!

    https://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/shop/p/lelit-mara-x

    charlie

    Comment


    • flynnaus
      flynnaus commented
      Editing a comment
      Somewhat noisy according to davec and his YT videos




    • Geoff_Squire
      Geoff_Squire commented
      Editing a comment
      The Minima is a great machine, and narrow at 270mm, but the pump is definitely not a quiet one.

    • JetBlack_Espresso
      >JetBlack_Espresso commented
      Editing a comment
      Yeah the Minima has a lot going for it but it's not the quietest vibe pump in the shop. The Lelit Mara X is noticeably quieter.

      charlie

  • #3
    Rocket Espresso vibe pump is also exceptionally quiet- but you need to be at Mozzafiato spend to get there and it's wider than the Lelit at 28cm

    Comment


    • #4
      Hi sillybilly my vote would be the La Pavoni Cellini Evoluzione. This would be my next upgrade if I were to stay with E61. Why? Because it has the same specs on paper as the ECM and Rockets; probably uses the same pump either fluid-o-tech or pro-con; it is from the same company as my Isomac; The ECM E61 can't be re jetted unless you use a needle valve like the one they sell as an option; but very best reason of all is because La Pavoni like Isomac are ALL stainless inside and out. They don't rust like Rocket, ECM, Rancilio and more brands besides. ECM/Rockets can need full strip down, chassis sand blasted and powder coated and full rebuild within a decade of life. My brother has had three and rebuilt two.

      I forgot your main wish. LOL. La Pavoni Cellini Evoluzione 300 W x 400 D x 410 H. Easily slimmer than the Breville.

      Comment


      • sacsnob
        sacsnob commented
        Editing a comment
        stainless chassis but Mater Xp100 on a $3100 coffee machine? tbh it does not fill me with confidence.

      • noidle22
        noidle22 commented
        Editing a comment
        I've seen far, far more Isomac and La Pavoni's leak and rust than Rocket or ECM. They're built with no particular care and they cheap out on materials. There's a reason they cost less.

      • Swiftly
        Swiftly commented
        Editing a comment
        @cafeinator. Well I’m assuming people on this blog have some basic idea of the components in a coffee machine. So all stainless of course doesn’t mean, pipes, valves, boilers, group heads, seals. The bits that rust on most machines are the mild steel chassis the big thing that holds it all together. They’re like beautiful, irresistible 1950s, 60s and 70s Italian sports cars.

        Have a look inside many of the most popular La Pavoni, Isomac, VBM etc. the best don’t have any mild steel components than will rust let alone the main chassis. So these are the ones that last a long time. Beside the boiler, almost all the other parts of an E61 machine are generic e.g. Parker valves, generic safety valves and check valves, ULKA, Fluid-o-tech, Pro pumps, Gicar control boxes. Even the E61 only has a few variations mostly for ECM. Nearly all the other E61s have interchangeable parts.

        noidle22, well they all leak! My brothers 2 Giottos and Cellini (all Rockets) leaked. My friends LM GS3 leaked. After all, I sn’t that the reason why we love this site and love to work on them? If Toyota or Mitsubishi made an espresso machine it probably wouldn’t leak. LOL

    • #5
      Would you consider a lever machine?

      Comment


      • witherz
        witherz commented
        Editing a comment
        I've got a Specialita and La Pavoni Europiccola sitting side-by-side on my bench. Doesn't get much quieter or smaller. The lever does take a bit of getting used to and is a bit of a different beast, but if you're ok with that then it is silent to run and takes up no space at all. Did a quick measure and 19cm wide. Just putting it out there as an option.

    • #6
      Originally posted by Swiftly View Post
      Hi sillybilly my vote would be the La Pavoni Cellini Evoluzione. This would be my next upgrade if I were to stay with E61. Why? Because it has the same specs on paper as the ECM and Rockets; probably uses the same pump either fluid-o-tech or pro-con; it is from the same company as my Isomac; The ECM E61 can't be re jetted unless you use a needle valve like the one they sell as an option; but very best reason of all is because La Pavoni like Isomac are ALL stainless inside and out. They don't rust like Rocket, ECM, Rancilio and more brands besides. ECM/Rockets can need full strip down, chassis sand blasted and powder coated and full rebuild within a decade of life. My brother has had three and rebuilt two.

      I forgot your main wish. LOL. La Pavoni Cellini Evoluzione 300 W x 400 D x 410 H. Easily slimmer than the Breville.
      It does look nice - but 2 cm more than Mozzafiato - 😅 Breville is 31cm - thanks though!

      Comment


      • #7
        Originally posted by yochiya View Post
        Would you consider a lever machine?
        I did briefly look at them - but I don't think I want to be that hands-on. Maybe one day...

        Comment


        • #8
          I just measured my Bianca and it is 290 wide when plumbed so same same if you put the tank on the back.
          To totally fit your brief though I reckon the Mara X is great.
          It is the only single boiler machine I would consider.
          In your price range though and for style, size and silence I would seriously look at a Strietman CT2.
          Simple to make espresso and there are easy and cheap ways to steam milk for those who want it.
          I want one.

          Comment


          • #9
            Preloved Cremina or Maximatic if you can find one- though $4k may not quite get you a good one. Cremina is silent (no pump) and the Maximatic is really quiet too.

            Comment


            • #10
              Extend the shelf towards you, put the Specialita in the corner and give yourself more options. (Secondhand Decent?)

              Comment


              • amberale
                amberale commented
                Editing a comment
                They are after a quiet, simple machine. :P

            • #11
              sillybilly oops my next suggestion wasn’t valid given you want a rotary motor.

              I was also desperate for a rotary. One solution which I considered was to buy a plumbed machine and either plumb it or reconfigure the pump bypass to take water from a container.

              I considered using a Pyrex beaker with a custom lid and/or with a custom enclosure. A lid from a hopper would look good.

              There are 3L 5L, 10L and even 20L beakers like these. https://www.labdirect.com.au/pyrex-h...w-form-5000ml/

              In your case you could custom mount a pump and beaker or coffee machine tank separately or plumb. That would give you many more slimmer options for the coffee machine itself.

              Comment


              • #12
                Originally posted by Swiftly View Post
                Hi sillybilly but very best reason of all is because La Pavoni like Isomac are ALL stainless inside and out. They don't rust like Rocket, ECM, Rancilio and more brands besides. ECM/Rockets can need full strip down, chassis sand blasted and powder coated and full rebuild within a decade of life. My brother has had three and rebuilt two.
                Originally posted by Swiftly View Post
                well they all leak! my brothers......
                Possibly a more positive route in future Swifty might be to target your energies towards helping your brother to understand mechanical sympathy and preventive maintenance.
                Could I suggest the veritable old faithful, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance or even Ted Simon's tome Jupiter's Travels ( how Ted coaxed a mid 1970's leaking Triumph T100 Tiger to transport him around the world) might be beneficial.
                As for your sweeping all inclusive trash talk of pure rubbish about numerous brands alleged failings. Id suggest it reflects more poorly upon the owner ( and maybe that they were purchased from a Non Aust authorised retailer - whom Doesn't bench tests all units, and checks the machine thoroughly prior to sending on to its luving owner)!
                I am for instance currently looking at a circa 2008 Rocket Giotto Premium Plus With a Sirai Commercial pressurestat as an OEM fitment, a frame without 1 pin prick of flaking or cracking of the OEM coating protecting the chassis.
                Not one ounce of rust full stop.
                And in its combined 5110 days of life to date has not leaked one ml of water internally, & on only 2 days total (one issue easily fixed) has it failed to light up in the morning to give its guts to the barista preparing a shot of luscious espresso.
                So your inference that Rocket's, Rancillio's, Bezzera's etc All leak and rust ....is just total claptrap. But I can't change yours and your brother's experience.
                As a mechanic with decades exposure to Maico's, Bultaco's, Ducati's, KTM's, an LJ XU1, and an XW GTHO Ph.II, its totally the owners responsibilty to assess and focus on what a machine needs in the way of setup, preparation and preventive maintenance to operate / preform as originally designed.
                As to your assertion regarding Toyota's / Mitsubishi's....maybe if they were circa mid '90's to mid 2000's you may be right.
                As to today I'd expect Toyo would find a way to make the water tank out of recycled hemp seed and the chassis from regurgitated plastic cups.
                High volume mass production is no longer about building the best. And better than any one else. It is about building unit after unit at a predetermined cost and then finding a way to lower it further.
                Oh and Swifty don't forget about those books for your brother ...eh! Even you might enjoy 'em.
                Ps I also have acces to an Isomac Zaffiro and yes as Andy here as stated as well, they pull a cracking good shot and in mho have their idiosyncrasies!

                Now lets get back to normal transmission and help Bill find his next machine.
                Last edited by EspressoAdventurer; 28 September 2021, 02:51 PM.

                Comment


                • Dartiguan
                  Dartiguan commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Nice little Chattaqua😊 but you’re showing your age

              • #13
                What EspressoAdventurer said.

                That post pretty much took the cake on ill-informed rubbish intermingled with garbage advice. I'm glad that someone else took the baton.

                Clean up in aisle #4.4 please! Somebody just stepped in something on the way in and then walked it all over the site.

                Comment


                • #14
                  EspressoAdventurer & Caffeinator . Well it seems you guys read me wrong. I've got no brand loyalty zero..! I just look at what it is that I buy what it is inside, how it performs and what it looks like on the outside!! For example, you may think I don't like ECM but my first choice for a very compact single boiler machine is the ECM Casa V which has nothing to do with the fact that it is made by ECM!

                  There's simply no way to circumvent the laws of physics and chemistry. If you put two metals in contact with one another and add something that acts as an electrolyte one of them, the one that wants to lose its outer electron the most, will corrode. Its basic oxidation reduction. Some metals corrode and form a skin protective such as silver or aluminium while other like iron (mild steel depending on other carbon) will flake and rust.

                  In terms of maintenance. They all leak because rubber, viton and even silicone will eventually dry up from heat and pressure. A coffee machine is like any machine so they need continuous maintenance. But the last thing you want to have to do is replace or repair a chassis.

                  So read what you like but the message is: best not to be brand loyal, instead choose quality by looking inside, and outside for aesthetics you like, and maintain it. It's that simple.

                  Your comment about maintenance is right on!

                  Comment


                  • Caffeinator
                    Caffeinator commented
                    Editing a comment
                    A mild steel powdercoated chassis will corrode if water is left to stand. Water left to stand will end up on your bench. If any owner is too stupid or careless to do anything about it, it's likely that that the corrosion will be the least of their machine problems. Better to buy a well made machine with a powdercoat chassis than a bucket of shite in a stainless chassis.

                    The rest of your comments make me inclined to think you know a whole heap less than you think you might. I won't start picking out the comments that are patently wrong, one by one, but there are plenty.

                    The OP is best to discuss requirements with some reputable dealers and/or techs. Internet opinions are like..........We all have them.
                    Last edited by Caffeinator; 28 September 2021, 05:37 PM. Reason: typo

                  • level3ninja
                    level3ninja commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Caffeinator the first rule of Dunning-Kruger Club is that your don't know you're in Dunning-Kruger Club

                • #15
                  Look Swifty...its poor form here to take over OP threads and then go off topic.

                  And I've been warned before not to engage with an unarmed man in a battle of wits.

                  Please see the SearcH bar at the top of the home page and start to actively use it.....
                  you'll find a raft of good reliable information encompassing years and years of ownership by many
                  and that your sweeping all encompassing statements are Far from accurate!

                  Oh and I never mentioned ECM in any way in my previous post.


                  Now Billy I wish you all the Good Luck with search for your next machine!


                  This is the second and final call, Calling All Staff....Clean up still urgently required in Isle #4.4




                  Comment

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