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ECM Synchronika (with flow control) vs La Marzocco linea mini with needle valve mod

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  • #16
    Hey mate, I owned an ecm classika PID (half a sync) and now own an LMLM with Ricks preinfuse 2 stage mod.

    First off, both are exceptional and either way, you are well geared up to make some of the best coffee you can. I must admit, i actually still miss the ECM every once in a while for a few reasons.

    The ECM is super well designed, super well built and in almost all ways more refined than the LMLM. The group handles look and feel much nicer. The PID and timer is so nicely integrated. The fc works really well, repeatability is a pain in the butt although you'd find the same with any manual fc. With the sync, you could plumb it in giving you line pressure for super consistent preinfuse. In terms of coffee in the cup, I arguably could pull better shots with the classika Simply because I could do things like bloom and flow profiles. Personally, I really like the look of the sync.

    E61 is amazing and has been used for this long for a really good reason. You don't have to make any real modification to the machine and you can service it nearly anywhere. With the e61 you can also see much better where the saturated LMLM group is a bit harder to see well when pulling shots, even with barista lights.

    For quality in the cup, access to services, lower cost and footprint (I think) the ECM is exceptional. I would also wager resale market is different if you needed to move it on.

    The LMLM to me is not just for brewing coffee. I marvel at it daily, both in terms of engineering and design. The tactile feel of the brew switch is seriously just cool. The industrial build comes through strongly and I like that. Everything is chunky and sturdy and really feels reliable and built for 1000s of shots. I keep it on all the time and I'm very comfortable doing so. I can whip up an endless supply of drinks on demand whenever I want.

    With Ricks mod, you can do a few types of shots super consistently and reliably. Straight 9 bar, timed preinfuse and slayer style shots. It works an absolute treat and I've had some magical shots. The milk steaming also is undisputed. Rick has mentioned that he has not had a single reported issue with the mod since 2016 which I can imagine given its mechanical nature. I do however wonder what happens of things did break...

    I have had better shots from the LMLM than all other machines I have owned. I have however owned it the longest, made the most amount of drinks and was the most experienced at pulling shots. Could someone with a sync pull better shots? Potentially. Will it be significantly better? Unlikely.

    I do not think an LMLM without the mod makes sense for home use at the price. Apart from it likely being serious overkill for 2 people, you will unlikely get better performance than with the sync (or Lelit Bianca for that matter).

    I love my LMLM, every shot sparks serious joy. Its always a part of the event when we have guests over. As it stands, I'd happily own this machine forever and seriously enjoy serving my family and friends great drinks. The only alternative I would consider is a Decent or Lever as both are something completely different.

    In saying that, I bought it second hand for a steal, Rick is local and all up it was a touch more expensive than a new ECM would be. Would I pay double what an ECM sync costs for a modded LMLM? Not too sure I would.

    I vaguely recall a fellow CSer having his LMLM up for sale. Might be an option to pick a second hand one up.

    Reach out if you have any questions.

    Comment


    • MJV
      MJV commented
      Editing a comment
      Thank you so much for your detailed response. You're advise is exactly the type of advise I was looking for as someone with experience with the ECM brand, flow control and a modified linea mini. I completely agree with you about a stock linea mini not worth the price and would need the rick Bond mod to bring it to the level it should be. If only it was at that level from the manufacturer the decision would be so much easier. That was actually my personal point with the missus in that discussion. She loved the specht design aesthetics whereas I said if we get the aesthetic upgrade we have to upgrade the internals too. I think I will have incredible owners pride with either machine. The repeatability of the 2 stage needle valve vs flow control is probably the strongest influence for me to take the leap with the LMLM. All other factors I am swaying to the ECM.

      Re the steaming on the LMLM I know they're highly regarded as best in class and on par with commercial machines. I'm interested to know how the ECM 2 bar PID upgrade goes against the LMLM steam wand. Both brands have had recent upgrades in that regard (ECM with the PID upgrade and LM with their take on a cool touch wand). Did your ECM also have the PID upgrade. Whole latte loves video on the PID has the ECM blowing like a cyclone 👍

  • #17
    MJV I had no additional upgrades, but truthfully, I think if you are going to steam 4-6 drinks back to back, the ecm would comfortably be able to do it. It might not take 8 seconds like the LMLM, but hey, your not running a cafe, what's the Rush.

    ​​​​​​I might get made fun of for this, but some days when I steam I don't even open the steam valve fully... I just don't need to, I'm ok trading a few seconds for more control. Many LMLM owners actually lower steam boiler pressure I've heard. At the start I used to splash milk everywhere due to the power.

    Long story short, I'm not convinced the stock ecm steaming is bad by any means and I'm not sure you really need to upgrade it.

    Comment


    • MJV
      MJV commented
      Editing a comment
      Fair enough and based on the WLL video with the PID upgrade that thing definitely doesn't struggle moving milk around. In terms of need to upgrade though, all new syncs come this that PID as standard

    • FilthySudo
      FilthySudo commented
      Editing a comment
      Can confirm the 2 bar steam is crazy good. I splash milk sometimes if I'm not careful. It steams 250ml easily in less than 10 seconds give or take( I should properly time it) I have the 4 hole steam tip on mine, so I haven't tried it with my 2 tip steam hole yet. But 100%,shouldn't have any issues steaming back to back. But by the time you do your art and re-fill your jug the pressure is back to where it needs to be anyways. You'd only start dropping off if you had multiple pitchers filled up and you just steamed steamed steamed

  • #18
    Just read through this thread.
    My thoughts having used both
    go for the Linea. If you can afford it now get it as they will all go up in price.
    sync with flow control is good, I pulled some fantastic long shots today (eg 100mls in 55 sec & super tasty) and some great espresso shots for milk.
    But if your wife likes the mini & you have approval from the minister of finance then get the LM

    Comment


    • yochiya
      yochiya commented
      Editing a comment
      Hey Ronin, I love my LMLM dearly but would be keen on understanding your reasoning more.

      Are you saying you prefer Stock LMLM above the ECM?

      Any specific call outs in features or things driving this?

      I'm asking as ultimately, I'm really keen to hear from others what the end result in the cup meant to them.

    • Ronin
      Ronin commented
      Editing a comment
      Ok, in the cup answer first
      It really comes down to your individual coffee knowledge. Knowing what variables there are & how each one effects the flavour of the beans & roast profile you are using will be the limiting factor here. User input and personal preferences.
      That is a long string that I’m not really prepared to go into online as I’ve spent countless hours testing, trying & tasting to understand as its my career.

      Machine point of view
      I love the ECM range. Great quality, great service and excellent to use. Great steam for the home use or office. The flow control is ok but possibly could be better. Same as and E61 flow control kit.
      I use a range of commercial machines at work for training purposes. La Marzocco make exceptional machines that are just hard to beat. You can sure, but the feel of them is excellent making work flow easy.
      The Mini replicates that. Commercial quality steam, awesome shots. If I was to modify it though I’d skip the needle valve and go for the full pressure profile. Either option great though.

      In summary both are great.
      My preference for the LM is slightly personal preference on machine feel and flavour and would also cure upgradis. If you are considering both machines & decide on ECM I think you will be looking at upgrading soonish.
      So, if I had permission I’d get the LM either with or without the upgrade with a future upgrade plan.
      Everything is getting more expensive

  • #19
    Oh also I think Spect is overpriced too

    Comment


    • #20
      EXCITING UPDATE:
      FIrstly thanks to everyone who gave advice. It was much appreciated and it was good to use everyones different opinions/experience to help guide me to the right decision. A special thanks to site sponsor Antony from Casa Espresso who reached out and gave really good advise on the pros and cons of each machine. He and I had the same thoughts on both machines and with pros and cons considered on both the ECM Synchronika and the LMLM the pros on the ECM far outweighed the cons and was the best machine for me. Antony was able to offer an amazing deal and one that I couldn't refuse. Not only that but with the customer service provided the ECM Synchronika with flow control fitted from Casa Espresso was the only choice for me. I live in Sydney and Casa Espresso is in Victoria and even still due to the service provided, Casa Espresso was the best option even over hopping in the car and purchasing in Sydney. Antony kept me up to date with photos of the machine as he fitted the flow control, booking for delivery and the entire process. There was a delay with the delivery company coming after shop hours to collect the machine but that was rectified by Antony the next morning and he must have put a rocket up them because it left his shop in Victoria and was delivered safe and sound in my house less than 24hrs later.

      The machine is STUNNING!!! Having owned a Breville barista express I thought my upgrade to the Rocket Appartamento was a giant leap. The ECM is on a whole other level to the Rocket. Not bringing the rocket down but the build is just that damn good on the ECM. This thing is like a Rolls Royce of coffee machines and looks stunning on my cart with my e65s and atom grinders.

      Ive made a few coffees so far and the Synchronika is whisper silent. The flow control is awesome and I'm diving deep into the world of pre/post infusion and ramping techniques.(if you have recipes I wanna hear them).
      Great help on the forum
      Amazing service from Casa Espresso
      Stunning new ECM Synchronika
      1 happy coffeesnobs member 😊
      Click image for larger version

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      • yochiya
        yochiya commented
        Editing a comment
        Congrats, that is a seriously special corner. May you have years of great service!

        For recipes, google WLL Flow Profiles OR Decent Flow Profiles. Normally you find a good graph which you can easily replicate. If you have an Acaia, you can also get the SE Profiler app that wil allow you to accurately track flow profiles.

      • FilthySudo
        FilthySudo commented
        Editing a comment
        Welcome to the sync club bud. I'm sure you'll enjoy and get smiles each day

    • #21
      How are you going with the Sync? On my shortlist along with the Bianca v3 and the Linea Mini? Is the flow profile a waste of time?

      Comment


      • simonko
        simonko commented
        Editing a comment
        I put my Sync for sale in the for sale section here today if you're still looking. No flow profile - definitely had my eye on it though. I have a lever now and love being able to control the flow to rescue a grind that's gone a bit stale and quick - I guess the same would be the case with the ECM flow control.

    • #22
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ID:	909272 Absolutely loving it. It's a beast. I obviously can't speak for the other 2 but based on your shortlist it certainly looks like a "best of both worlds" in terms of comparison to the lelit and the LM. The flow control is awesome I use it every day. It's really good to pretty much eliminate any channeling issues. If you use it accompanied with a distribution tool you shouldn't have any channeling whatsoever. It's also great for experimenting with different extractions to account for different age/type & roast of beans to get the best results if tinkering around is your thing. If not the ability to add a soft pre-infusion before ramping up to the standard 9 bar is a great bonus.

      For me, I couldn't be happier with my choice on the ECM over the LM. Its build quality is superb, steams like a beast, looks awesome and offers more control. Vs the lelit, well that comes down to preference. The ECM is more powerful, subjectively looks better (my opinion) and is of higher quality in build finish but it's more expensive!

      It's up to you.

      In saying that!! ECM 👍

      Comment


      • tompoland
        tompoland commented
        Editing a comment
        Hi MJV did you purchase your Synch from CS? Looks a lot like the one I sold last year. If it is the same one, it's great to see it in top nick still. (I had the Tasmanian Olivewood handles custom made and fitted the flow control on the one I sold.)

    • #23
      Just read through this thread ... and bought ECM Sync w/ flow profile. ;-)

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      • #24
        Originally posted by ttonyg View Post
        Just read through this thread ... and bought ECM Sync w/ flow profile. ;-)
        Congrats..... I've had mine for a month now with no regrets.

        _K1S8438.jpg by Noel Leahy, on Flickr

        Comment


        • #25
          Good choice, I have the Sync and love the coffee it makes, better than any cafe i believe !!

          Comment


          • #26
            Congrats! I've enjoy following the journey.

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