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Faema E98 S1 pump conversion from vibe too gear

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  • Javaphile
    replied
    Stavros Looking at the puck it appears you need to lower the height of the coffee in the basket. You can clearly see the impression of not only the shower screen screw/bolt but the impression of the group head gasket as well. With the puck that height you're compressing it against against the shower screen which will not only cause it to plug up but damage it as well. Additionally you can damage the basket and wear out the ears on the group head and portafilter faster as well as wearing out the group head gasket faster. Use the 5 cent test to determine the proper grounds level for your machine.


    Java "Nice Mod!" phile

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  • EspressoAdventurer
    commented on 's reply
    Nice work Stav, enjoyed the work and the read. Cheers

  • Stavros
    replied
    Guys,

    It's time to wrap this thread up. It was initially going to be about a little 'project' to replace the vibration pump with a rotary pump, but then morphed into the installation of a variable speed gear pump, (along with all the associated flow control, pressure profiling, pre-infusion baggage). The pump is in, the machine is running, and it is making coffee, , , in a fashion. So it's time for a summary of the practical aspects, so anyone interested in converting their machines have the relevant information.

    The FG304 pump is suitable for this application. The 4mm gearset seems ideal. The pump speed / flow rate is easily controlled, and at the slowest speed the flow does not exceed what would be required for a slow infusion. It can be easily installed in any orientation in, or for that matter, outside, of the machine. The pump is not completely silent, so I would recommend some form of vibration mounts, just to keep the 'chatter' away from the machine chassis. Likewise, it would be wise to route any flexible pipework away from other parts.

    Plumbing the pump is is relatively straightforward. Note that some of the pumps are manufactured with NPT ports, not BSP. I am drawing the water from the machines water tank, and that works fine. I have no idea if you could plumb it in and what complications that may involve. No special or additional manifolds are required. No additional bleed, orifice, needle valves, flow control valves, etc, are required. The only thing you will need is a check valve somewhere on the output of the pump. Provided your OPV valve is operating correctly, and is adjustable, it should be fine. Please note that the manual recommends to avoid pressure spikes in the discharge side of the pump, so any valve downstream of the pump, including the grouphead solenoid valve, should only be closed after the pump has stopped.

    Electrically, it is not too complicated to wire up. The information in the manual is easy to understand and implement, and the single potentiometer provides a very convenient and reliable means of speed control. The Meanwell LPV 24-100 power supply that Lyrebird recommended is more than adequate for the pump motor. I chose the simple path, and connected the power supply to where the vibration pump was previously connected. As Level3Ninja noted, when you switch the 240VAC supply to the Meanwell power supply, your pump will be delayed turning on and delayed turning off as the output voltage of the power supply builds and drops. This delay, which could cause spikes in the discharge line, is manageable by manually reducing the pump speed using the potentiometer prior to cutting power. Having said that, several people have recommended useful work-arounds and circuits which would solve this problem.

    And finally, I've limited the scope of my project to the basics, and deliberately avoided the control of the pump via a pressure transducer, by a microprocessor, with a feedback circuit, etc. In doing so, I have not taken advantage of the the additional features and capabilities that these variable speed gear pumps provide. I'm sure that others could integrate the pump and it's electrical control into their machine far more professionally than I have, and I would encourage them to do so.

    That's about it. I can't think of anything else, except that the technical support people at Fluid-O-Tech are quick to answer any emails, and seem more than happy to provide additional information. Oh, and there is heaps of useful information out there on the net - I'm still trying to catch up.

    Cheers, Stavros.
    Last edited by Stavros; 11 November 2021, 02:57 PM.

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  • EspressoAdventurer
    replied
    Nice looking shot Stav. Thick layer of crema in proportion to espresso (liquor).
    I can only relate what I (seem to know) works for me.
    So when I get a gusher or an underextracted shot I often look at the crema and see pale insipid thinness - Biege as I call it.

    Now your shot above - even tho Im not looking down on it from above - has (to me) flecks of hazelnut and a deepness of colour that reflects a well crafted shot with higher % of extraction yields than the biege shot I erroneously referred to.

    Your shot is typical of what I aim for and call a well setup shot.

    Stav Id encourage you to try some further variations such as shot yields around the 1:2 shot ratio such as a 17g dose - 34-36g out in 34-38 se.
    i.e. a flow rate of 1g : 1sec overall. Try see what it gives. Then try some variables on the P.I. side.

    Stav now that I got you gazing into your crema , whats it gonna take to get you to measure the headspace in your basket at a 17g dose??

    PS I wish you nothing but peace and happiness Stav...... As we know its a woman's world nowadays, and the good Lord knows and accepts my betrothed for instance is a very hard marker .......but your being held to KPI's by your other half for her morning coffee! ... Oh my Stav I wish you the best.

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  • EspressoAdventurer
    commented on 's reply
    Hmmm ......Kinky Boots ? maybe Stav....

  • Stavros
    replied
    Originally posted by EspressoAdventurer View Post

    Please post up the dose weight / shot ratio and a pic of the shot to see the depth of the crema.
    OK, this is the first time I've ever bothered to check out the crema - it makes me feel a little, , , um, , , kinky.

    This is a 17 gram 32 second, 6 bar shot of the medium roast, (ONA Aspen), beans. It ended up with 42 grams in the glass. It still looked a bit fast to me, despite reducing the grind, , again. However, it achieved the main KPI - it got the tick of approval from the wife. Fairly happy with the puck too - if you are into puck appreciation, , ,

    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0762.jpg Views:	0 Size:	18.4 ** ID:	890269Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0764.jpg Views:	0 Size:	26.1 ** ID:	890270


    Cheers, Stavros.

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  • Stavros
    commented on 's reply
    EA, yes 2 bar is definitely a bit low for a shot. I didn't expect it to do that, with the fine grind, I thought the flow would just slow and stop half way through. It's bizarre, it's like the slow pre infusion has changed the rules, and I need to relearn them.

    The E98 seems to have a lot of headspace, and I need to dose a couple of grams higher than the basket size before I get a puck which makes contact with the screen on extraction, and doesn't come out like mud. With a dark roast, that is about 16.5 grams, and with a lighter roast about 16.8 grams. This gives me a nice firm dry puck which nearly drops out of the basket when you shake the portafilter. I don't know if this is a 'key performance indicator', but it's something I like to see.

    I have always aimed for the typical 40 grams in the cup in 30 seconds, but I'm happy with a few grams either way, provided that it's still drinkable. I've never considered ratios, or volumes, or anything, just 40 grams. Even when I've changed baskets and doses, I still aim for 40 grams. Except for those rare occasions when you seem to fluke a really nice looking shot which taste great when you stop it early at 30 to 32 grams. Maybe I accidental strayed into ristretto territory - who knows.

    Anyway, I don't have an espresso shot glass, but in the next few days I may pull a shot into a vegemite jar and see what it looks like.

    Nah, I'm not expecting any criticism, as the people on this forum have been really good - they seem pretty casual and down to earth about this whole coffee game. It's not like that "other Esoteric Voodooo Espresso forum", (say it like you would whisper " the other woman", who is somewhat exotic, but very high maintenance), who take it wayyyyy too seriously.
    Last edited by Stavros; 10 November 2021, 04:08 PM.

  • Stavros
    commented on 's reply
    Yep, It's like I let the Genie out of the bottle, and I can't jam them back in again.

  • EspressoAdventurer
    replied
    Stav good stuff much admiration for your achievements with this to date.
    I didn't see anything in that shot that wouldn't have made me super keen to taste it.
    Tho the only times Ive run a 14sec P.I. has been when Ive mistaken / mixed up my puck prep.
    My only thought with that is that 'old skool' italian espresso 'rooles' was don't leave the handle prepped and in the GH for too long a time as the grounds may 'burn' from the heat.
    As I said old skool, as your running low pressure, low flow rate water P.I. and of course running a higher dose weight I assume than trad Italian espresso.
    If I was able to be there Id be super keen to try many variables - Taste, Taste, Taste - particularly in overall shot time vs shot ratio (g). Meaning variances to the flow rate and I spose in the later half of the shot. Also variable P.I. times and saturation levels.

    I found as with others here that 'light' roasts improve over a longer settling time - up towards 20 days - than the longer darker roasts.

    Please post up the dose weight / shot ratio and a pic of the shot to see the depth of the crema.
    Also whats the amount of 'space' above the puck in your setup at present?

    Be prepared for a few who may likely post up ....wtf , ????, knickers all knotted over any mention of mm's, grams, secs and % ratio's etc.
    Mind you I didn't see an almighty blaze over the 'Esoteric Voodooo Espresso' reference earlier !

    Edit: PS not referring here to you of course Mal !

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  • Dimal
    replied
    There are just so many variables contributing to the final result in the cup, the mind is well and truly boggled...

    Mal.

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  • Stavros
    replied
    Guys,

    I know I said I was going to stay away for a couple of weeks, but just so you can be as confused as me, below is a link to a video of a two Bar shot!! They are a medium roast bean, about 10 days old, more nutty and fruity than my usual dark roast chocolate beans. The grind was insanely fine, but you wouldn't think so by the flow in the last half of the shot. (Those clicks and clacks in the background about midway through the shot are just the pressurestat doing it's thing, not me controlling the pump.)

    Once I started looking, there is a lot of information and opinions on the net about variable pressure profiling, slow infusion, and lower pressure extraction. Some of the issues I've encountered, especially using a finer grind have been identified and well explained, so it is starting to make sense. While a number of people have used a 6 Bar pressure, I've got some really nice shots at 3.5 to 4 Bar. They are not textbook perfect, and I've had to stop a few early, but they taste very nice, and that's what counts to me. So much so, I've had way too much coffee today.

    Of interest was one comment that "Perhaps counter-intuitively, a gentle pressure ramp tends to yield a faster flow rate later in the shot, whereas a swift pressure ramp tends to yield a tightly restricted flow during the last 2/3 of the shot.” That's a trend I've noticed, and may explain the flow in the below 2 Bar shot - a lack of pressure to compress and stabilise the puck.

    So, plenty more experimenting and practice required before I get a handle on this.

    http://www.users.on.net/~m27373/E98/...Bar%20Shot.mp4

    Cheers, Stavros.
    Last edited by Stavros; 10 November 2021, 01:44 PM.

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  • WhatEverBeansNecessary
    commented on 's reply
    I think his videos can be both. Sometimes over the top with too much high end information and sometimes too basic to really be useful. But there are a few that are worth watching and the understanding espresso series is interesting while a good portion is not groundbreaking.

  • Stavros
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks very much for that comment about Hoffman, I found his video on YouTube, and it all made sense. I've never taken much notice of his stuff, as I thought it was a bit over-the-top, but now I'm going to have to watch his other videos as well. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po3oGIicu-8)

  • WhatEverBeansNecessary
    commented on 's reply
    James Hoffman did an interesting piece on why 9Bar was the 'standard' pressure as part of the understanding espresso series. 9 bar appears to be the highest flow point, over that seems compress the puck too much.
    Maybe that is why the lower shot pressure is more forgiving for tamping and puck prep? interesting that you are getting better flavours at much lower pressures though.

  • TailorCoffee
    commented on 's reply
    Would love a video of a shot and varying the pressure. Sounds awesome!
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