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Profitec Pro 600 - Flow Control valve issues

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  • FNQ
    commented on 's reply
    Hi JoshuaPalvin welcome to the forum.

    While i am sure salt pellets (whether chloride or potassium) will soften water, I am not quite as sure of their total effectiveness for coffee. In my novice opinion, the pellets may deal with calcium , i still think you may need to consider the chlorine.
    I am glad they are working for you.

  • JoshuaPalvin
    replied
    I personally use water solar salt pellets which also deal with water contaminants. I have tried many ways to soften and clean water, but this method seems to be most cheap and easy for me. However, I heard that installing a water filter (even if it costs around $2-3k) is really a nice option to save money and clean the water without any effort.

    Leave a comment:


  • MarkQ
    commented on 's reply
    Haha...thanks for the endorsed recommendation. Bombora, it is!

  • amberale
    replied
    I can only agree with EA’s suggestion to send samples to Bombora.
    You might even be able to drop them in as they are also Sydney based.
    It is what I did from rural Victoria and then bought the filtration kit from them (They provide a free service so why go elsewhere for the purchase).
    I am about to send two samples after one year of use before confirming what I need for ongoing filtration.
    If you thought espresso prep was a rabbit-hole welcome to water.

    Leave a comment:


  • MarkQ
    commented on 's reply
    Proof, indeed. Time to invest in a treatment system that'll preserve the machine. Thankfully, I've been diligently pulling 250ml a day from the steam boiler.

    On the kettle comparison, we have a glass Breville kettle, as does my wife's parents in Lyon, France. After six months or so, about 20% of the stainless boiler plate on ours becomes discoloured and the glass is clear. On theirs, however, it looked like a cup of powdery flour had been poured into it, with white calcium carbonate caked on the base and glass walls! I was mortified! Half a lemon and its juice and 1L of boiling water and an overnight soak, and it was back to looking its best.

  • EspressoAdventurer
    replied
    Re: filtration...people here have been talking themselves into Jug type filtration for years.
    If you think about it trying to remove micron size ( the human eye cant see a 40micron and lower) particles with a gravity fed filter??
    It to me really doesn't happen.

    And Im sorry to put it this way but your 15-18month old machine is proof of it.

    As for Sydney water or any other authority .....there's is a 'representative' analysis ! and I guess they know where best to source samples from !
    For instance none of that 'analysis' accounts for detritus that enters the water pipes post the treatment plant. And there is plenty of that. that happens for instance when a burst pipe is repaired
    .
    And considering Sydney Water says its water is soft!
    They're analysis is totally irrelevant to espresso boilers.
    As the terms are used as a comparison of worldwide stds of treated reticulated water.

    The easiest test of 'local' water is to look in as many 'local' (family /friends) kettles as you can and see what the appearance looks like.

    Leave a comment:


  • MarkQ
    replied
    EspressoAdventurer , thanks for your detailed post. My previous machine was a single (brass) boiler. This machine being a dual boiler, I think I'll ship it to a shop to have them do the maintenance. RE: your point about gravity-feed filtration, I'm taking that to mean that I'm wasting my time with the water filter jug. Pretty annoying - it's like having an insurance policy that doesn't cover what is thought to be covered. I wonder what the machine would have been like just running it on straight tap water!

    Here's the analysis straight from the Sydney Water website (fantastic that this level of information is available! Totally irrelevant if on tank water - I wish!):

    Total Hardness: This is a measure of the mineral content (particularly calcium and magnesium carbonates) of your water.
    37 - 60 (mgCaCO3/L)
    "Based on this result, your water is considered 'soft'."

    Total Hardness (°dH): This is a measure of the mineral content (particularly calcium and magnesium carbonates) of your water, measured in 'German degrees' of hardness.
    2.07 - 3.36 (°dH)
    "Based on this result, your water is considered 'soft'."

    Total Hardness (PPM): This is a measure of the mineral content (particularly calcium and magnesium carbonates) of your water.
    37 - 60 (ppm)
    "Based on this result, your water is considered 'soft'."

    Total Dissolved Solids: This is a measure of different dissolved salts in your water. Higher levels can cause scaling or build-up in pipes and appliances.
    124 (mg/L)
    "Levels in your area are considered low."

    pH: This is a measure of the acidity or alkalinity of your water where 1 is very acidic, 7 is 'neutral', and 14 is very alkaline.
    7.67 - 7.92 (pH Units)

    I laughed when I read "German degrees of hardness" - my ancestry is part-German.

    Leave a comment:


  • MarkQ
    commented on 's reply
    The BWT Magnesium Mineralizer filter cartridges are meant to convert calcium to magnesium and (from their website) "Provides effective protection against limescale for household appliances such as coffee machines".

  • EspressoAdventurer
    replied
    Originally posted by MarkQ View Post
    Hello fellow CoffeeSnobs
    In August 2020, I bought a Profitec Pro 600 (dual boiler for those who are not familiar with the machine) with their flow control valve as an add-on. The machine is on a timer that starts it at 0630 and stops it at 1030 everyday. I make one piccolo a day, sometimes two, and I pull 250mL of water from the steam boiler a day to make a cup of tea for my wife. I freshwater back-flush the machine after each shot and chemical back-flush it about once a month.
    Was your prev machine Stainless Steel Boiler?
    Originally posted by MarkQ View Post
    With the valve completely closed and brew lever lifted, water still flows out of the group. It never used to. What's not so bad is that it flows at about 2mL/s - typical pre-infusion rate, right? Wanting to know why the brew water was flowing, I popped the mushroom valve open and was horrified to see scale and caked-on bits everywhere in such a short period of time! God knows what the boilers look like!
    Scale on your brew valves. Clean and rebuild with new seals.
    Check your O/P and Vacuum Valves.
    Descale soak where necessary...not insitu if you can be bothered to go to the trouble.
    Check your Gicleur. As well as your hot water /steam taps - as you use a timer - you don't need a water spout drip on a timer restart!

    Originally posted by MarkQ View Post
    I'm in quite a soft water area (Clovelly, NSW), but even with that, I thought that I should protect my machine by using only BWT Magnesium filtered water in it, which I have done, and have purchased replacement filters from the shop from which I bought the machine since buying it.
    Send 2 samples 300ml each of to Bombora -
    1/ straight tap water.
    2/ filtered water.
    See what the test results say. Its free other than courier cost.
    I'd suggest you need a water softener to assist an uprated filtration spec.
    Originally posted by MarkQ View Post
    I'm very interested in hearing about whether I was deluded in thinking that the BWT would prevent this. My previous machine, run without filtered water for years didn't have this level of muck when I pulled it apart!
    Oils ain't Oils!... right. So too with filters.
    Matching the filtration to your water / espresso requirements is the key.
    And Ive come to believe that home espresso requires a different filtration std than the Commercial Coffee std. Why?
    Commercial Cafe / coffee isnt concerned about either taste or longevity of their machine. Most will be replaced out in a 3-6year time scale.
    See the recent posts in the water filtration sticky thread.

    PS just seen post 3 /4.
    Mark there's your issue. Gravity feed filtration does very little to effect the mineralisation of the base water fed it.

    Leave a comment:


  • amberale
    replied
    That makes sense, I don’t know whether the jugs actually remove the scale causing minerals or if your set up is designed to add minerals to ionised or distilled water.

    Leave a comment:


  • MarkQ
    replied
    Originally posted by amberale View Post
    Which filter are you using?
    I run a BWT Bestmin M plus a particulate filter on rainwater in rural Victoria.
    Recommended after water testing, I think a big dust storm we had a couple of years ago “contaminated” our tank.
    when I pulled my mushroom after 6 months it was almost spotless.
    I'm using the BWT Magnesium Mineralizer filter cartridges in one of their jugs, replacing the cartridge when the jug indicator tells me to. The Pro 600 is a reservoir machine and I'm renting the accommodation, so I don't necessarily want to invest in a mains water filter.

    Leave a comment:


  • amberale
    replied
    Which filter are you using?
    I run a BWT Bestmin M plus a particulate filter on rainwater in rural Victoria.
    Recommended after water testing, I think a big dust storm we had a couple of years ago “contaminated” our tank.
    when I pulled my mushroom after 6 months it was almost spotless.

    Leave a comment:


  • MarkQ
    started a topic Profitec Pro 600 - Flow Control valve issues

    Profitec Pro 600 - Flow Control valve issues

    Hello fellow CoffeeSnobs
    In August 2020, I bought a Profitec Pro 600 (dual boiler for those who are not familiar with the machine) with their flow control valve as an add-on. The machine is on a timer that starts it at 0630 and stops it at 1030 everyday. I make one piccolo a day, sometimes two, and I pull 250mL of water from the steam boiler a day to make a cup of tea for my wife. I freshwater back-flush the machine after each shot and chemical back-flush it about once a month.

    With the valve completely closed and brew lever lifted, water still flows out of the group. It never used to. What's not so bad is that it flows at about 2mL/s - typical pre-infusion rate, right? Wanting to know why the brew water was flowing, I popped the mushroom valve open and was horrified to see scale and caked-on bits everywhere in such a short period of time! God knows what the boilers look like!

    I'm in quite a soft water area (Clovelly, NSW), but even with that, I thought that I should protect my machine by using only BWT Magnesium filtered water in it, which I have done, and have purchased replacement filters from the shop from which I bought the machine since buying it.

    I'm very interested in hearing about whether I was deluded in thinking that the BWT would prevent this. My previous machine, run without filtered water for years didn't have this level of muck when I pulled it apart!

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