Olympia Cremina Value

[mrgray]

I owned a Cremina. White. 6k brand new from coffee parts. a work of art. so tiny! little portafilters and deep baskets (which are quite forgiving in their depth i reckon). Your usage determines its viability was my takeaway. i imagined using it at holiday house. i forget something and it sat there. alot of equipment involved in making coffee. changing setups for a newb is disorientating. also it is very heavy and a work of art so having it move around in car not good. so the portable fantasy faded.

my wife loves coffee which is one of the best things about coffee for me. however ime If you want to make more than one cup of coffee on the trot conveniently look elsewhere. my routine of turning it on and finding the right temp and then making a coffee was sort of elaborate and i found i didn't know what to do when it came to coffee #2.

in the end it sat there and i got a modded LM :-) i then shelved a single dose grinder and got a kony-e and loaded it with beans and just turned it into a totally opposite thing to the Cremina. what was a one off involved process (which i was quite committed to when i did it) became a much more convenient assembly line and that suited us fine at that time.

it looks incredible though and feels like a Rolex in its construction. owning it was something i really wanted to do and i am glad i did. i was surprised eventually of how little utility it really was to me. i kept it a long time past its usefulness as a coffee machine because of how good it looked in the white and because of how attached i was to it.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Don't worry. It's getting plenty of daily use, has temperatute strips and piston pressure gauge installed.

[mthomas87]

Hey snowy whereabouts in Sydney are you? I have a 1982 Cremina that's been mostly restored. It got to the point of making coffee and then moved off the bench before it could be completely finished off (put the badges back on and some of the stainless polished up and whatever). If you want to try one out for a few months I might be able to loan it out if you're keen? I feel bad that it's not getting used every time someone posts about trying to hunt down a used one

[amberale]

You are so going to get smashed with PMs now.

[Grumpybarista]

Evening Snobs, reading through this thread (and several other Cremina threads) sums up alot of where I am up to and I am seriously considering investing into a Cremina as a (hopefully) final espresso machine. And with a very near milestone birthday approaching, there is even more of a reason to consider it.

Of course its impossible to see a new one in the flesh, yet alone try one out.

So I thought I might put the feelers out there and see if a fellow Snob based in Sydney, who owns a Cremina (preferably a model from 2012 but not a problem if not), might be willing to have me round to show me their Cremina i.e. the workflow, pull some shots and let me pull an espresso or two. I would be happy for such a privilege to buy you some beans (or roast you some bean bay beans) - comfortable to chat and/or work out the finer details in a PM.

Please let me know or PM me if you have one or know of someone who does and is based in Sydney

Also, I do have 2 questions for any other snobs who might be able to chip in and answer based on their Cremina experience:
1. I understand you can dose ~14-15g in the porta-filter. What is the espresso dose you can get out in ? e.g 1:2? Can you do 1:3 or more?

2. What's the max size cup you can put under the group head? Does it fit a mug or no (thinking about the Mrs, but yes can always pull a shot into a small cup and pour in to a mug).

Thanks,
Mike

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

For mrgray

[Grumpybarista]

Nice set up BOS!

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Ta. As you can see, the setup is due for its 'weekly' wipe down.

[snowytec]

This is the perfect travelling machine period, (its tiny, relatively light and above all bullet proof).
If you don't get a custom travelling case you might end up with a few scratches - and that could make you cry, (because one gets emotionally attached).
The trick is not to form an emotional bond, (just like when you're preparing onions).
Best advice, buy a pre scratched one.
I have two sets of gear including grinders, portafilters, brushes etc., one set always stays with the travelling machine and that takes care of having to remember stuff.
My travelling machine is an Electra Micro Casa and its very good but I wish I had bought two Cremina's. (I was too tight fisted).
The biggest baskets are 20g we can get a maximum of 19g into them at our preferred grind level, for us 20g would be a slightly Turkish coffee grind, (to powdery tasting).
You can re lift the lever ad infinitum and extract a litre or more if you wish, (but the coffee won't taste any good).
Point is you can easily control the taste profile you prefer in your extractions, (might take say 50 coffees to develop a permanent feel for this).
If you take out the removable the mesh grid that sits in the drip tray and buy a Naked bottomless portafilter, you have 13.5cm of clearance for cups.
Cheers.

[Grumpybarista]

Thanks snowytec - helpful!

Yes I heard/read re-lifting the leva was a no-no for taste.

If you dose the porta-filter with 19g of coffee, what would you (on average) get into the cup in grams?

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

I travel with mine (and the Niche) in the footwell behind the passenger seat (and with pillows stuffed on top and around them). Works very well.

[snowytec]

I've forgotten how many grams, because you can always lift the lever a second time and stop it half way or one quarter or whatever you wish, (direct lever no spring action to contend with).
So the only thing that defines the amount of extraction is how you want that extraction to taste, (the pressure you chose to extract at also effects the taste, as does the temperature).
I'll weigh the amount and get back to you, it must be small because the Cremina reputation for intensity of taste was what first attracted me to the machine, (our coffee journey focuses completely on coffee taste).
So i'm assuming one of the components must be less water, (to achieve intensity without bitterness).
Give me a couple of days to remember to weigh.

[Grumpybarista]

Thanks snowytec I guess the reason for the question here is, if one wants a lungo for example (ratio of 1:3) can one get it without re-lifting the leva.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

I use what I think is the standard basket (I have a slightly bigger one as well) and dose b/w 14.9 and 15.5g depending on the bean / roast level and use the 'Fellini' thing (i.e after the first pre-infusion I raised the lever and bring it down a little again and may repeat this for some beans). Start the pour after 8-10 secs in total. When I measue the extraction is is b/w 29-33g. Note: I have the pressure stat set to range b/w 6.5 and a little over 8 bars.

[Grumpybarista]

Thanks BOS. So it seems likely that (on average) the extraction is 1:2?

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Yes, at a maxmimum. It's probably a little less on average.

[Paolo]

I remember that the Elektra double basket holds a whisker over 15gm of grounds.

Which basket holds 19gm?

[snowytec]

Paolo,
Electra 20g Baskets from Gabor, they also fit the Cremina without problems, (been using them for years).
The 19g is our limit of trade offs and if prefer a courser grind you may be limited to 18g.

[Grumpybarista]

If you take out the removable the mesh grid that sits in the drip tray and buy a Naked bottomless portafilter, you have 13.5cm of clearance for cups.

snowytec , what's the clearance between the naked bottomless porta-filter and the drip tray in place? Thank you.

[Faatshank]

Private message sent.

[Faatshank]

Sorry, wrong forum!

[snowytec]

Clearance to bottom of "Naked" with mesh thingy sitting in drip tray is 10.3cm.
13.5cm with drip tray in place, but mesh standoff that fits inside removed.
Looks just as good and works well without the mesh and only the drip tray inserted, (drip tray itself is Cremina standard polished s/s).
You never get any drips in the drip tray with normal operation.
Been using ours without the mesh from day one. we extract streight into those standard cup size Vacuum glasses.
Even with the mesh in place that's possible, but that extra clearance allows you to less careful and all movements then feel natural.

[yochiya]

What are the main pains of owning a Cremina?

Some things I've been pondering:
How many shots can you pull before having to refill the boiler?
Is refilling the boiler a chore having to wait for the pressure to reach 0?
How many back to back shots would be feasible and comfortable?
Do you have to worry about temperature management?
Is the double pump for longer pulls a major issue?
Having no spring, is the involvement of direct lever shots something you'd get tired of and consistent over time?
is the non 58mm size a annoying?

Would love to hear from owners of these are valid and of there are any other nuances.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

The major pain would be if you are making several coffees back to back, and particularly if they each require steaming milk. I don't so this is completely irrelevant to me. The manufacturer's blurb describes the boiler capacity as sufficient for 20 shots......but you wouldn't do that in practice (ideally you want to be pulling shots with relatively similar fill levels....and the boiler pressure should be more consistent at higher fill levels). Can't see why you couldn't comfortably pull 10 though.

Temperature management isn't difficult. A temperature strip is handy. I pull three short shots through the group once the machine has reached temperature. As I tend to pull my 2 shots per day about 30-45minutes apart, I find that that I don't need to anything prior to pulling the 2nd shot. With shorter gaps between shots you might need to wipe down the group with a damp cloth to drop the temp.

The double pump for longer pulls is not an issue. You're not fighting a spring or significant puck resistance when doing this. Almost zero effort is required required to this.

The non 58mm thing is an advantage in terms of taste (I believe) but obviously accessories are scarcer (try finding a dosing cup...).

I will never get sick of involvement in direct lever shots. I have also installed a piston pressure gauge (just for feedback purposes), but this is not necesary.

In summary if you are making a small number of coffees per day, there are few drawbacks (other than the price!) If you are making coffee for a household of coffee drinkers, it would not be convenient or practical. My observations reflect my experience and usage patterns. YMMV.

[ovonate]

Curious if anyone here has considered the Odyssey Argos?

It appears it adds *likely* a plumb-in option, 58mm group, ability to switch between spring/direct lever, it's tiny and appears to be relatively affordable.

[yochiya]

Been following it and the Londinium Vectis extremely closely. Very early but looks very promising.

[tompoland]

Yep, Got one on pre order. Just because it's so different. 58mm, direct or spring, 9bar or 6 bar springs, PID, pressure guarge, app for profiling. Should be fun! I'm in love with my Strietman CT2 right now so I may not hang on to the Argos but who knows.

[amberale]

Yep, I have an early bird order in.
I have been following it for quite a while and I am just happy that someone is bringing current tech to the small lever market.
The incumbents seem happy to sit on their 50yo designs and make money.
It might not replace my CT2 but it might replace my Bianca.

[snowytec]

If you get a design right, leave it alone, just work on improving long term reliability.
No need to dazzle buyers with tons of tech. to compensate for poor basic design.
Reminds me of all the crap stereo systems that flooded the market in the 70's / 80's
Millions of buttons all producing a million variations of a rubbish "tainted" sound.
And the CD / MPEG 3 dazzle con, - the only people that I know who still regularly listen to music are the ones that kept their record collections.
The Lever guys have all tried the other the other offerings in search of better coffee.