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Cinquantotto vs Mozzafiato Evo R

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  • Cinquantotto vs Mozzafiato Evo R

    Hi all,

    Will be buying my version of end-game machine, and I managed to narrow it down to just two, all from Rocket (a long time dream), the Cinquantotto or the Mozzafiato Evo Type R.

    I myself only drink 100% espresso, 2-3 cups per day. In the odd occasions where I have guests coming over, I may make 3-4 cups of milk-based coffee.

    Based on the above, the shop suggests me to go with the Mozzafiato, as the Cinquantotto will be overkilled, with the dual boiler, given that I never froth the milk.

    I tend to agree and am about to jump into Mozzafiato. However, part of me was still wanting the Cinquantotto.

    Is not having to flush the grouphead prior brewing the only benefit of a DB over an HX for someone like me?

    What will I miss from a DB by getting an HX, if I only drink espresso 100% of the time?

    Thanks in anticipation of anyone who willing to share their knowledge.

  • #2
    youll be able to control the brew temperature better with the dual boiler, which is definitely something thatll help consistency with your espresso. you might even be able to turn off the steam boiler most of the time. so, id be leaning towards the dual boiler for your needs. if you were a milk based drink guy then id say the hx makes more sense. my 2 cents.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for your reply! Isn't it the other way around? As I am a 100% non-milk then an HX will be better, as otherwise the other boiler will have what they called 'dead water' as it may never be used.

      The Mozzafiato has a PID so that, again they said, will help with the temp consistency.

      FWIW, yes, one can turn the other boiler off in Cinquantotto. However, if I did that all the time, other than when I have guests (which is rather rare), what's the benefit of having a DB then?

      Thanks again for taking your time to reply.

      Comment


      • Caffeinator
        Caffeinator commented
        Editing a comment
        Nope. What TailorCoffee said.

        Research what a heat exchanger (HX) is: Cold water from tank or mains is flash heated in a tube within a boiler which will be at circa 120 deg C. In the seconds that it takes for water to pass through the tube en route to the group, it gains temperature. Get the HX design right and you get the desired temperature at the group.

        Changing the boiler temp by a couple of degrees will not have the same effect on the brew temp. Decreasing the boiler temp will adversely influence steam quantity and quality. Ultimately, a PID in a HX machine is simply a digital pressurestat which controls temperature of the boiler and pressure is a byproduct of that. A pressurestat controls pressure and you get temp. There's a reason why Rocket hides the PID in a HX machine: You will rarely, if ever touch it.

        If you're working with medium-dark roasts, the HX (Mozzafiato) will be fine. If you want control of brew temperature to push it higher for lighter, fruitier roasts, you need independent control of a brew boiler and the Cinquantotto will be a better choice.

        Your reseller may have questioned your coffee habits and recommended the Mozzafiato based on a preference for darker roasts. If so, go for it. If that's not the case, they have provided you with incorrect information and you should choose another reseller or make your own decision based on correct information.

    • #4
      Thanks, Caffeinator. I'm humbled with the knowledge and the amount of time you spent replying and explaining the above.

      I'll read some more and do my research better.

      Comment


      • Caffeinator
        Caffeinator commented
        Editing a comment
        You are most welcome. I hope it helps you to choose the right machine for your personal circumstances.

    • #5
      Cinquantotto. Overkill for an espresso machine is lot possible within (my) laws of espresso physics.

      If you don't get the Cinquantotto you may always wishing and a wondering. Well, I would be.

      Comment


      • amberale
        amberale commented
        Editing a comment
        Nah, you'd just sell something and buy it anyway.
        You've got form. :P

      • JT1
        JT1 commented
        Editing a comment
        He’ll end up with an r91 and a lever machine after you’re done with him!

    • #6
      It is only an extra $1k now to buy the one you want, if you buy the Mozzafiato and then upgrade the difference will be more than 1k. The one you want also happens to be better for your application and give more options later. Turn the steam boiler on every month or two and empty it just to keep the water moving.

      Comment


      • #7
        I came from a very humble Breville Dual Boiler, and reading what Caffeinator said above, made me think how dumb I have been, not utilising the ability to change the brewing temperature, and yet often wondering why my espresso taste funny.

        Is draining a boiler in Cinquantotto as easy as draining a boiler in BDB? Also, a question to those who own one, if I turn the steam boiler off (for energy efficiency), how long does it take to turn it on and heat it up for ready to steam? The possible scenario is that when I brew my espresso, the missus suddenly ask for a latte 😀

        I love this forum as otherwise I wouldn't have known the benefit of a DB for an espresso-purist (if that even a word) like me, so thank you all.

        Comment


        • Caffeinator
          Caffeinator commented
          Editing a comment
          Ok- So you have used your BDB at default and by doing so, it was effectively emulating a HX.

          If you're happy with the coffee you are producing with it and don't feel a need to do anything else, it seems to me that you just sold yourself a Mozzafiato?

        • rooroadbikes
          rooroadbikes commented
          Editing a comment
          Caffeinator, precisely. I was thinking about it all day yesterday, and asking myself, will I be playing with the brew temp up and down everytime I make an espresso? If I own a Cinquantotto, maybe I will, for the first few days. In reality, I will be more likely play with the grind size, to dial in my espresso. I was not blessed with a sophisticated palate like James Hoffman did, to be able to tell a broad range of acidy and fruity taste of an espresso.

      • #8
        I found link removed as per Site Posting Policy this very helpful page from TalkCoffee.

        It does raise a question though - so who would buy the Mozzafiato? I assume someone who is already in the position of purchasing a Mozzafiato will quite easily add another 1K to get a Cinquantotto.
        Last edited by Javaphile; 24 June 2022, 02:23 PM.

        Comment


        • #9
          Javaphile My apologies. I didn't know that sharing a link to another URL is prohibited here.

          Comment


          • #10
            I had an ECM Classika PID and it made incredible espresso. With the flow regulator kit, youd have an incredibly high level espresso machine. And the steaming capabilities were good, so for those times you have a few friends over, youd be more then capable to make them lattes. id just make all the espresso first, then switch to steaming mode.
            For about $2500 brand new with the flow regulator kit it might be a good option for you. just my 4 cents.

            Comment


            • rooroadbikes
              rooroadbikes commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks so much for the input. Embarrassingly to say, I have had my eyes set on a Rocket machine. It was a very long time dream, which finally may come true.

          • #11
            Your concern with turning over the water in a double boiler machine is also a concern for Hx machines. If you aren't drawing water out of the hot water tap on the Hx then the water stays there for a very long time. The Hx draws water from the tank for espresso and steam comes fomr the top of the boiler. So if you never draw from the hot water tap the water in the boiler stays there forever.
            At least with the double boiler you can leave it turned off so you aren't heating it all the time.

            good practice to drain the Hx boiler on a periodic basis so the water in it doesn't get over-concentrated with minerals. can purge it or pull a few cups every so often out of it.

            In regards to "flushing the group" you should do that for the double boiler as well. Think of it as a hygiene flush more than anything, a well set up Hx doesn't require cooling flushes.

            Comment


            • #12
              I recently bought the Mozzafiato V. Unless you need to plumb in the machine, perhaps you don’t need the R. I was amazed how quiet the V is.

              Comment

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