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Which lever to compliment my current setup?...Cremina, Strietman

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  • Which lever to compliment my current setup?...Cremina, Strietman

    I currently own the newer generation of the Olympia Maximatic & when purchasing the Maximatic decided to pair the machine with the Olympia Moca grinder. I've been happy with both machines. The Maximatic is very consistent & easy to dial in with the Moca. I went with the Maximatic mostly because I hadn't plunged down the rabbit hole just yet and didn't quite understand what a lever entailed.

    I've wanted to add a lever for some time now & naturally, having owned 2 Olympia products + other Olympia accessories, figured the Cremina would be an excellent addition to my setup. I've been told that if you own an Olympia you'll be disappointed in the build quality when jumping to other brands machines...hard to say if that's true or not.

    Anyway, enter the Strietman...It seems to be the perfect direct lever by everyones account. Superb build quality, exceptional temperature stability, & still compact enough to be an addition to anyones espresso designated counterspace. It also seems to be the only direct lever that Cremina owners consider switching to.

    I just feel a bit hung up here & I'm worried that if I go with the Strietman right now, I'll regret having not experienced the Cremina. I can eventually see the counter consisting of both the Cremina & Strietman and probably(?) a different grinder but the ability to steam milk is important so no matter what, if the Streitman gets added, there will need to be a second machine for steaming milk.

    If I had to do it all over again, I'd (probably?) trade the Maximatic for the Cremina and wouldn't think twice about adding the Strietman right but who knows - the consistency & convenience of the Maximatic is a big positive. Maybe even having a Strietman, Cremina, AND Maximatic on the counter isn't that "crazy"...who am I kidding, I feel like a nutcase!!!

    What would you do?

  • #2
    Welcome to the forum Stuart, a nice choice to have! I think if you have a desire for a Streitman you will probably end up there, so you may as well go straight there. This is just based on your stated wants. There are some enthusiastic Cremina and Streitman owners here who I am sure will offer an opinion. Both are high quality and well made.

    Comment


    • stuartwagner
      stuartwagner commented
      Editing a comment
      Thank you, sir. You mean the great coffee influencer, tompoland ????!!!

  • #3
    I think having the maxmatic and strietman together is great. one is consistent and easy the other gives much more room for experimentation and the fun of developing your espresso routine. The one complaint with the cremina is usually that you have to temp surf and learn that quirk about the machine, whereas the strietman solves that with the pid temp control. The strietman is also a piece of functional art. my vote would be for the strietman and if you have money left over get another grinder, maybe a conical like the niche or the weber key to compliment the flats of the moca.

    Comment


    • TailorCoffee
      TailorCoffee commented
      Editing a comment
      or you could get a hybrid like the Honne - tompoland could chime in here with his guidance.

  • #4
    Originally posted by stuartwagner View Post
    If I had to do it all over again,....... Maybe even having a Strietman, Cremina, AND Maximatic on the counter isn't that "crazy"...who am I kidding, I feel like a nutcase!!!
    What would you do?
    What would I do....Id be seeking out a session of 'coffee therapy' with CoffeeSnobs own..... TomPoland !
    Look him up.
    Oh And good luck....and best wishes!

    Comment


    • #5
      Thank you EspressoAdventurer for that kind introduction.

      Where are you located stuartwagner ? There are any number of us who would be happy to have you over to pull a few shots. I'm near Noosa QLD in case you are nearby but no, I don't wear a white belt, matching shoes and a gold chest chain as amberale would have you believe (evil man; you have been warned).

      I have a Strietman CT2 but I've never owned a Cremina. From what I"ve read the latter requires some temerature surfing which can be a pain if you are pulling more than one shot. The CT2 is ready to pour after ten minutes and it settles into a 3.5 degree range, so 1,75 degrees either side of whereever you have set the thermostat to. WIthin that range it's very stable so it can be left on for hours and is ready to pour an espresso at any time. That's a big plus. The build quality, like the Cremina no doubt, is superb.

      In terms of grinders, the Single Dose version of the Moca landed on my espresso island about a month ago and I love it. I'm due to write a review for it so I"ll post it here when I've finished it but if the burrs in the Moca are the same as in the SD version that I have, then it's a keeper. Fabulously flavorsome espresso and unbeatable in terms of predictably dialling in shots, right out of the box.

      As TailorCoffee wrote above, a quality concial burr grinder such as the Niche or Key or indeed Malwani Livi or Hedone Honne would be a great complement to the Moca. Peronally I've paired the CT2 with the Livi because they are both minimilist machines, owner-creator crafted and offer a very physical espresso experience i.e. no buttons to push - so I think they are well matched.

      I've read on HomeBarista of quite a few Cremina owners buying the Strietman and posting that they considered it an upgrade, for whatever that's worth. I can't recall reading anyone who did it the other way around.

      So for me, yes it would be the CT2. Adding a quality conical to pair with the CT2 would be pretty awesome but that could come later because the Moca, (assuming it has the same burrs that the Moca SD version has) is a brilliant grinder quite capable of producing very tasty espresso from the full range of roast depths but IMHO really shining with light and Medium roasts.

      The other lever that is worth considering is the Odyseey Argos which uniquely offers both direct and spring lever options in the one machine. But it would be quite a wait to get one because orders are closed off until Ross has the first production run in full delivery swing, which he has suggested will be December sometime. (although I noted he didn't state which year), So new orders for the Argos may not be open again until then or even later. And there is not a lot in the way of reviews so it's still a bit of an unknown quantity.

      PS if you think having three machines on your bench might be "crazy" then definitely come visit, it'll make you feel sane very quickly.

      Comment


      • Dimal
        Dimal commented
        Editing a comment
        a 10 year old WRX will blow them into the weeds
        Well yes, if that's all you care about...

      • EspressoAdventurer
        EspressoAdventurer commented
        Editing a comment
        Yeah Mal I think he's got an ear out for a TestaStretta as well !

        This thread was made for you Tom !

        At least it feels 'Real' unlike the recent StoneLuver episode !!

      • tompoland
        tompoland commented
        Editing a comment
        Funny guy EA (so over the stone thread)

    • #6
      I will just put this here.....

      Antony
      www.casaespresso.com.au
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • tompoland
        tompoland commented
        Editing a comment
        Ooh .... you are so naughty....

      • crazyhakins
        crazyhakins commented
        Editing a comment
        Why does the grouphead have ears?

      • Caffeinator
        Caffeinator commented
        Editing a comment
        The right one activates the pump for group fill from tank (or mains) and preinfusion as your desired pressure. This is set via an easily accessible hole in the chassis to allow for access to the rotary pump bypass. The left one allows you to exhaust excess water once your desired shot volume has been reached- and also to back flush the group which is a first. The group is actively heated for 20 min max. warm up and it's also a dual boiler. Antonio Nurri has a patent (or pending) on the smarts.

        The machine is silent other than while the pump operates which is only at full leva travel. It's super clever stuff and has taken spring levas to next level.

    • #7
      If you just want to scratch your Cremina itch then buy one, especially if you can find one second hand.
      In that case you will be able to sell it for what you bought it fairly easily if it doesn't work out.
      The Strietmen are wonderful if all you want is espresso.
      I am biased as an early orderer but, I like the concept of the Argos.
      Again it is very small.

      We then move up to larger levers.
      Londinium. ACS Evo, ACS Vostok, Nurri, Izzo Alex/Valexia, Bezzera, Bosco etc etc etc.
      I am not sure that that is what you are looking for.

      Comment


      • stuartwagner
        stuartwagner commented
        Editing a comment
        Thank you amberale - the largers are intriguing but it's either going to be Cremina or Strietman....or both at some point. Just can't justify the space, heat up time, and power consumption of a machine that big for the 3-4 shots I pull a day.

      • tompoland
        tompoland commented
        Editing a comment
        Some of the new machines e.g. Nurri have smaller boilers and a 15 min heat up time so much more energy efficient.

    • #8
      Originally posted by tompoland View Post
      Thank you EspressoAdventurer for that kind introduction.

      Where are you located stuartwagner ? There are any number of us who would be happy to have you over to pull a few shots. I'm near Noosa QLD in case you are nearby but no, I don't wear a white belt, matching shoes and a gold chest chain as amberale would have you believe (evil man; you have been warned).

      I have a Strietman CT2 but I've never owned a Cremina. From what I"ve read the latter requires some temerature surfing which can be a pain if you are pulling more than one shot. The CT2 is ready to pour after ten minutes and it settles into a 3.5 degree range, so 1,75 degrees either side of whereever you have set the thermostat to. WIthin that range it's very stable so it can be left on for hours and is ready to pour an espresso at any time. That's a big plus. The build quality, like the Cremina no doubt, is superb.

      In terms of grinders, the Single Dose version of the Moca landed on my espresso island about a month ago and I love it. I'm due to write a review for it so I"ll post it here when I've finished it but if the burrs in the Moca are the same as in the SD version that I have, then it's a keeper. Fabulously flavorsome espresso and unbeatable in terms of predictably dialling in shots, right out of the box.

      As TailorCoffee wrote above, a quality concial burr grinder such as the Niche or Key or indeed Malwani Livi or Hedone Honne would be a great complement to the Moca. Peronally I've paired the CT2 with the Livi because they are both minimilist machines, owner-creator crafted and offer a very physical espresso experience i.e. no buttons to push - so I think they are well matched.

      I've read on HomeBarista of quite a few Cremina owners buying the Strietman and posting that they considered it an upgrade, for whatever that's worth. I can't recall reading anyone who did it the other way around.

      So for me, yes it would be the CT2. Adding a quality conical to pair with the CT2 would be pretty awesome but that could come later because the Moca, (assuming it has the same burrs that the Moca SD version has) is a brilliant grinder quite capable of producing very tasty espresso from the full range of roast depths but IMHO really shining with light and Medium roasts.

      The other lever that is worth considering is the Odyseey Argos which uniquely offers both direct and spring lever options in the one machine. But it would be quite a wait to get one because orders are closed off until Ross has the first production run in full delivery swing, which he has suggested will be December sometime. (although I noted he didn't state which year), So new orders for the Argos may not be open again until then or even later. And there is not a lot in the way of reviews so it's still a bit of an unknown quantity.

      PS if you think having three machines on your bench might be "crazy" then definitely come visit, it'll make you feel sane very quickly.
      Thank you tompoland - I'm a Perth bloke. You mean to tell me the great Tom Poland, Bean Buddha himself, has never owned a Cremina??? I find it hard to believe....someone call the Bean Bureau on this man and have him locked away, pronto.

      To your points about the Cremina temp surfing - I've no doubt read the same but I feel it's hard to judge how "workflow disruptive" it is without having ever used a Cremina myself. I've seen Gabor's temp study from a few years back (HB Forum) on the 3 different generations of the Cremina and it's quite interesting... I'm a slow worker myself and tend to (at the very max) pull 3 doubles at any giving time​ - 80% of the time is generally only 2 doubles. Between shots & preparing drinks it usually takes me about 5-6 minutes from end of 1st shot pull to beginning of 2nd shot pull (god help me). My point is, I feel as though I'd be somewhat hard pressed to be disrupted by any overheating during any given "coffee session" but I suppose you don't know until you know. Gabor's study indicated that you really don't get into the "unusable-time-to-cool-down-zone" of the Cremina until around about the 3rd consecutive shot pull. I believe he did the study doing rapid succession pulls as well. There's also, the whole other caveat of not being able to see the temp of the actual group without some sort of temp strip, but everyone loves a good surprise every now and then.

      My Moca, like yours has been fantastic. I actually had the option of the SD when I bought the one I currently have - from what I understand it's the same internals, just different ergonomics. I'm a sucker for glass hoppers which is why I went the route I did. Glad to hear you like yours as much as you do & as much as I do. Crazy to me there's not more people using them/talking about them.

      In terms of structural stability of the CT2, how is it? I've read there's some slight bending that can happen depending on the force in which the shot is being pulled. Have you experienced the same? How many doubles are you able to pull with a full boiler?

      As far as the Argos goes, I have to say that I'm a bit of a party pooper and can't get on board with the machine quite yet. A bit skeptical I suppose. I see the steam wand on the machine being more of a disruptive hassle than a positive addition...I'm looking forward to being proven wrong however. The Vectis is intriguing as well.

      Comment


      • tompoland
        tompoland commented
        Editing a comment
        There is no bending to speak of. It's easy to grind too fine is someone is coming from a non lever machine but even though I've made that mistake any bending would be unable to be measured with any device I have. There must be some tiny flexing with every shot I guess but it's not noticeable visually at least. You'd have to be a national arm wrestling champion to get any flex, I suspect.

        From reading your report of the HB posts/testing, it looks like sounds similar to the La Pav in that when the temperature is right, you can pull two or three baack to back to back. But then what? I tend to have an espresso and an hour or so later I want another one. I don't really want to have to turn off the machine after the first one and then turn it back on again an hour later. I may be misreading your post but if that is the case the Strietman offers a very significant temperature stability experience.

        I sold a La Pav for that reason and i sold a Flair Signature Pro 2 for the same reason. I really don't want to flaff around any more with temperature surfing.

        That said, there are about a million La Pav and Cremina fans out there who seem perfectly happy with temperature surfing and feel that owning these quite special levers is worth the sacrifice. More power to them.

      • tompoland
        tompoland commented
        Editing a comment
        PS reservoir holds 125ml as kindly measured by amberale

      • amberale
        amberale commented
        Editing a comment
        Did I?
        Must have been under caffeinated.
        I just checked and the CT1 holds 500ml if filled completely and about 350ml if filled to the "safety" line.

    • #9
      Originally posted by tompoland View Post
      Thank you EspressoAdventurer ? There are any number of us
      I have a Strietman CT2 but I've never owned a Cremina.
      PS if you think having three machines on your bench might be "crazy" then definitely come visit, it'll make you feel sane very quickly.
      Barry O' might just happen along soon...

      Comment


      • Barry O'Speedwagon
        Barry O'Speedwagon commented
        Editing a comment
        Maybe....

        I think the choice just comes down to individual use patterns and preferences. I make no more than 2 coffees at a time and temperature surfing is a non-issue for me on the Cremina. The Strietman looks great, but I have most of my coffees with milk, so I'd find the lack of a steaming option a bit limiting as a full-time option. I 100% enjoy the fact that Cremina haven't jammed new technology into a machine that just works, and which for most the most part is repairable by the average Joe. You don't find too many Creminas on rubbish heaps. That said, they are bloody expensive. Whatever floats peoples' boats.
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