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I need a dual boiler - or do I?
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Primacog a lot of upsides to the Bianca. Downsides for me are features that bump up the price that I’m not interested in, such as the rotary pump and plumbing in ability. But I love the aesthetic of the machine. If a second hand machine comes up when I’m ready to buy I’ll be seriously tempted.
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You can also buy any used e61 machine and then buy a flow control device to fit to it to produce a result similar to the bianca. For me, i never even bothered to get a flow control device for my e61 as i just jog the lever to engage preinfusion at about 2 bar for as long as i want before fully engaging the lever to switch onthe pump to go full 9 bar.
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Err that's not actually true, E61 groups use a thermo syphon loop which circulates the brew boiler water through the group. This is slow and takes about 30-45 minutes to fully heat the group but it will effectively reaches equilibrium temperature with the boiler.
Saturated and other actively heated groups have the advantage of much quicker heat up times as low as 5-10mins. The actively heated groups will be more temperature stable between shots as the group is actively heated and even if the boiler temp drops the group can stay at a higher temperature.
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For your budget you could get a Bianca(used) and a Niche(Eeek, not my style but very good).
Under $100 for a full service kit.
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Sorry, viy, do you mean your budget is 3-4K USD or AUD? I thought it was the former but if it is AUD then I agree the upcoming Nurri saturated grouphead machine isn't likely to be below such a budget.Originally posted by amberale View PostHI Viy.
E61 dual boilers are, for most people extremely temperature stable.
If one is only drinking milk drinks they are probably more stable than required(milk hides a lot of sins).
Folks who are into 3rd wave, light to very light roasts tend to be more particular about the ability to change and maintain temps as they are walking a fine line between acid/sour/fruit.
The Nurri lever is lovely and competent but it is $9k aud at the moment.
I doubt a saturated Nurri pump machine will be less than $6k when it hits our shores.
On the other hand there is a barely used Lelit Bianca V2 for sale on this site for under $3k that a hell of a lot of folks would consider an end game machine..
I know I have ordered a comparable machine to the Nurri but I aint selling my Bianca until I know the new lever is able to replace it.
I still have my e61 and I use it for light roast espresso and though its not as good as my nurri, it's not bad. I never even bothered to modify it for flow control so I would agree that once you hook it up to a thermocouple to be able tl get a real time temp reading on tbe grouphead, it will do a pretty decent job if the budget doesn't extend far enough currently.
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HI Viy.
E61 dual boilers are, for most people extremely temperature stable.
If one is only drinking milk drinks they are probably more stable than required(milk hides a lot of sins).
Folks who are into 3rd wave, light to very light roasts tend to be more particular about the ability to change and maintain temps as they are walking a fine line between acid/sour/fruit.
The Nurri lever is lovely and competent but it is $9k aud at the moment.
I doubt a saturated Nurri pump machine will be less than $6k when it hits our shores.
On the other hand there is a barely used Lelit Bianca V2 for sale on this site for under $3k that a hell of a lot of folks would consider an end game machine..
I know I have ordered a comparable machine to the Nurri but I aint selling my Bianca until I know the new lever is able to replace it.
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AFAIK there can be quite a difference between the temperature of the brew boiler and the joint between the e61 grouphead and tbe boiler and the outside of the grouphead itself. I measured the last two places on my e61 with a thermocouple and confirmed this. In practice the brew boiler is set with an off set to take this into account but is the fixed offset range accurate at that particular time?
if you can wait a little, Nurri is apparently coming out with a saturated grouphead based pump machine that is cheaper than their L-type SA spring lever. It was called the GTO but they are changing the name and the overall design of the machine.
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Thanks @Primacog.
What does that mean in practice, assuming that I buy an E61 DB? What is the level of variation in the brew temperature one could reasonably expect, assuming ordinary circumstances and a competent machine user?
My budget is roughly $3-4k which I don’t think is going to get me a saturated grouphead. I’m eyeing off the Izzo Vivi Duetto at the moment.
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There is one extra consideration - changing the brew boiler temperature on a dual boiler machine isn't going to directly cause the actual groiphead temperature to be at the same set temperature unless the machine has a saturated group head or a cartridge heated grouphead that is controlled independently by a pid. So actually you need independent control of three separate components temperatures - the grouphead, brew boiler and steam boiler. An example of a double boiler in the saturated grouphead category is the LM GS3 pump machine and an example of the latter is the Nurri L-type SA lever.
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