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I need a dual boiler - or do I?

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  • viy
    commented on 's reply
    Primacog a lot of upsides to the Bianca. Downsides for me are features that bump up the price that I’m not interested in, such as the rotary pump and plumbing in ability. But I love the aesthetic of the machine. If a second hand machine comes up when I’m ready to buy I’ll be seriously tempted.

  • Primacog
    commented on 's reply
    If so then any used e61 that is in excellent condition and that fits your budget should do the trick. But having the bianca to start with would be even better as the profiling option comes with the package then.

  • viy
    replied
    Primacog I’m not planning on getting flow control presently but having the ability to add it in the future is nice - means I’d get something new to play with without having to do a full upgrade.

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  • Primacog
    replied
    You can also buy any used e61 machine and then buy a flow control device to fit to it to produce a result similar to the bianca. For me, i never even bothered to get a flow control device for my e61 as i just jog the lever to engage preinfusion at about 2 bar for as long as i want before fully engaging the lever to switch onthe pump to go full 9 bar.

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  • viy
    commented on 's reply
    Just what is a ring group Caffeinator ?

  • viy
    replied
    amberale I did notice that Bianca V2 in the for sale section. Extremely capable machine. However I won’t be in a position to buy for at least a month from now, and it’ll be long gone by then.

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  • roosterben
    commented on 's reply
    Err that's not actually true, E61 groups use a thermo syphon loop which circulates the brew boiler water through the group. This is slow and takes about 30-45 minutes to fully heat the group but it will effectively reaches equilibrium temperature with the boiler.

    Saturated and other actively heated groups have the advantage of much quicker heat up times as low as 5-10mins. The actively heated groups will be more temperature stable between shots as the group is actively heated and even if the boiler temp drops the group can stay at a higher temperature.

  • amberale
    replied
    For your budget you could get a Bianca(used) and a Niche(Eeek, not my style but very good).
    Under $100 for a full service kit.

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  • Caffeinator
    commented on 's reply
    GTO is a ring group, no?

  • viy
    commented on 's reply
    That’s $3-4k AUD Primacog

  • Primacog
    replied
    Originally posted by amberale View Post
    HI Viy.
    E61 dual boilers are, for most people extremely temperature stable.
    If one is only drinking milk drinks they are probably more stable than required(milk hides a lot of sins).

    Folks who are into 3rd wave, light to very light roasts tend to be more particular about the ability to change and maintain temps as they are walking a fine line between acid/sour/fruit.

    The Nurri lever is lovely and competent but it is $9k aud at the moment.
    I doubt a saturated Nurri pump machine will be less than $6k when it hits our shores.

    On the other hand there is a barely used Lelit Bianca V2 for sale on this site for under $3k that a hell of a lot of folks would consider an end game machine..
    I know I have ordered a comparable machine to the Nurri but I aint selling my Bianca until I know the new lever is able to replace it.
    Sorry, viy, do you mean your budget is 3-4K USD or AUD? I thought it was the former but if it is AUD then I agree the upcoming Nurri saturated grouphead machine isn't likely to be below such a budget.

    I still have my e61 and I use it for light roast espresso and though its not as good as my nurri, it's not bad. I never even bothered to modify it for flow control so I would agree that once you hook it up to a thermocouple to be able tl get a real time temp reading on tbe grouphead, it will do a pretty decent job if the budget doesn't extend far enough currently.

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  • amberale
    replied
    HI Viy.
    E61 dual boilers are, for most people extremely temperature stable.
    If one is only drinking milk drinks they are probably more stable than required(milk hides a lot of sins).

    Folks who are into 3rd wave, light to very light roasts tend to be more particular about the ability to change and maintain temps as they are walking a fine line between acid/sour/fruit.

    The Nurri lever is lovely and competent but it is $9k aud at the moment.
    I doubt a saturated Nurri pump machine will be less than $6k when it hits our shores.

    On the other hand there is a barely used Lelit Bianca V2 for sale on this site for under $3k that a hell of a lot of folks would consider an end game machine..
    I know I have ordered a comparable machine to the Nurri but I aint selling my Bianca until I know the new lever is able to replace it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Primacog
    replied
    AFAIK there can be quite a difference between the temperature of the brew boiler and the joint between the e61 grouphead and tbe boiler and the outside of the grouphead itself. I measured the last two places on my e61 with a thermocouple and confirmed this. In practice the brew boiler is set with an off set to take this into account but is the fixed offset range accurate at that particular time?

    if you can wait a little, Nurri is apparently coming out with a saturated grouphead based pump machine that is cheaper than their L-type SA spring lever. It was called the GTO but they are changing the name and the overall design of the machine.

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  • viy
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks @Primacog.

    What does that mean in practice, assuming that I buy an E61 DB? What is the level of variation in the brew temperature one could reasonably expect, assuming ordinary circumstances and a competent machine user?

    My budget is roughly $3-4k which I don’t think is going to get me a saturated grouphead. I’m eyeing off the Izzo Vivi Duetto at the moment.

  • Primacog
    replied
    There is one extra consideration - changing the brew boiler temperature on a dual boiler machine isn't going to directly cause the actual groiphead temperature to be at the same set temperature unless the machine has a saturated group head or a cartridge heated grouphead that is controlled independently by a pid. So actually you need independent control of three separate components temperatures - the grouphead, brew boiler and steam boiler. An example of a double boiler in the saturated grouphead category is the LM GS3 pump machine and an example of the latter is the Nurri L-type SA lever.

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