Choosing lever dilemma

[Andreas75]

Hi!
New at this forum and doing my first post now. Got the feeling that levers are popular here so I think this is the right place to ask for insights.
At the moment I have a pump machine and a manual lever but since several month I have decided that my next machine will be a spring lever.
Since I dont have the possibility to try different machines where I live I have tried to read on diffferent forums to decide what might be best for me.
Even though there are man different group heads I have heard so many people praising the group head from La San Marco so at the moment I have that as my first choice. Among the machines I have found with that group head I have divided them inte three groups:

• Basic: One boiler, pressurestat. Here we have machines like La San Marco Leva 20/20, Izzo Pompei (think too big) and also some vintage ones like La San Marco 75 export.
• Little more advanced: One boiler, PID/Gicar. Here we have machines like Izzo Alex/Valexia Leva.
• Most advanced: Dual boilers, three PID, pump with adjustable preinfusion. ACS Evo Leva, ACS Vostok, Nurri Leva.

First I can say that I prefer medium roasts but once in a while I drink both light and dark roasts.
I must say that I really like simplicity so in that aspect I prefer the basic machines. Feels most classic and guess those machines also are the most robust and can last very long if taken care of. However, result in the cup is of course also very important but personally I dont know how much I would gain with one of the advanced machines and I am not so interested in doing too much experimentation.and adjustments. Maybe the little more advanced could be the way to go but not sure how much extra a PID would give compared to a pressurstat?

If you have experience with one or several of these kind of machines I would really appriciate your thoughts of the choice I will do.

[tompoland]

It would be remissive me not to nominate this spectacular beauty for your worthy consideration...

https://coffeesnobs.com.au/forum/mar...nurri-leva-s-a

(Completely unbiased recommendation of course!)

[amberale]

Freight to Sweden might be a bit expensive.

[TailorCoffee]

oh right, didnt realise that Andreas is in Sweden!

[Andreas75]

That is a real beauty but with shipping and import tax I think the price will rise a lot.

[tompoland]

So many lever experts here Paolo caffienator Casa Espresso just to mentions a few.

[Tiliqua]

The best news, you know that you want a spring lever, so everything else is a minor distraction. The Elektra should be added to your list. An older version is the ultimate in basic but is very easy to navigate and maintain. It is a very small investment to pick up a 40 year old one, refurbish it and start experimenting. My own experience is that you can be in the ball park in just a few shots, so not onerous.

As you are not that interested in experimenting and adjustments, a more advanced machine is obviously an option but someone who has experience in machines such as the Olympia and others is best placed to advise how much advantage they give you.

[Primacog]

I own a nurri leva but before that I owned an izzo pompei for more than a decade so I have been using the La San Marco type grouphead for all that time since botj machines use a version of that type of grouphead. So i have a lot of personal experience with both.

The izzo pompei is a robust and very simple machine being designed go work in a cafe serving thousands of shots a day (for the 3 or 4 grouphead ones) without any issues. It is super reliable - I cannot remember it ever letting me down in that decade or so I owned it. Of course only used it once or at most twice a day which was like asking a triathlete to jog down to the nearby shop to buy a newspaper! Of course the pompei is massive for a home kitchen but my rather small kitchen fitted it without issues though aesthetically it really looked like a huge block of stainless steel perched on a small counter, so its smaller btother the izzo alex is smaller form factor but that has the same components..taste wise for dark Italian traditional type espresso, the izzo is perfect for that. And steam pressure was vast and incredibly powerful.

However I soon found the limits of the izzo practically speaking when I began experimenting with light roast and medium.roast espressi. Changing the temperature of the boiler meant changing the pressure and u had to take the top off and ut was obviously an inexact thing as u didn't have a temperature gauge in the boiler. But the biggest issue was changing the temperature in the grouphead - I had to permanently attach a thermometer to the grouphead and to achieve the desired higjer temperatures that light roasts are keep flushing over and over again by pulling down on the lever and releasing it that carefully (since the portafilter was empty) - not a very safe manoever that was also fairly strenuous (mind you though it is a great workout for the biceps and triceps - a decade of pulling the izzo lever means that it is fairly easy for me) And since the machine generally took 45 minutes to heat up, u needed a smart timer for this machine or have to spend a lot of time flushing. If u wanted to shift to dark roasts from light roasts and lower the temperature the operation would be evne more tortuous - u would have to cool down the grouphead somehow. Others use wet towels or fans etc. I didn't even bother to do that but didn't alternate as it was too much trouble. The temperature inertia that the izzo had was tremendous as it had a lot of steel and brass that retained a lot of heat.

After a while that got old really quick but i had gotten to like lighter roasts so that was a problem much as I really liked the pompei. Fortunately the nurri became available at that time and the first time I saw the white and zebrawood version of the nurri, I was stunned with how great it looked. The nurri is the best looking espresso machine that I have ever seen - this is subjective of course but to me it looks better than even the kees van der westen Speedster that was the champion looks wise previously to me. (Evidently design profession agrees because the nurri was listed in the 2022 compasso d'oro design list by ADI which honours the best looking Italian made product designs of any kind of the year).

So I sold the pompei and got the nurri and I have never made better tasting espresso and latte drinks so easily or consistently before. Using the nurri is as easy and intuitive as using the izzo and it is similar to the izzO in that it is almost completely manual in nature. By this I mean everything except setting the pid (which is as easy as setting the timer for your pours) is done by pulling a lever or paddle. No touchscreens or pull down menus. It is all very tactile and feels direct from hand to coffee.

The nurri allows independent control of the temperature by pid and independent heating cartridges of the grouphead, brew boiler and steam boiler. U can set entirely different temperatures for all three components and it will make sure that temperature is maintained. It heats up in less than 15 minutes to full temperature. The double paddle system allow the shot to be ended and tbe remaining water in the grouphead to be vented into the drip tray, and the preinfusion pump to be operated directly. This elegant manual syatem allows many different techniques and methodologies to be adopted and practiced or just the straightforward spring lever thing. It is very powerful but yet intuitive and simple to use. For some reason I attribute to better ergonomic design, the lever is much easier to pull down effort wise compared to the izzo though it has the same double spring system.

Since u like medium roasts and sometimes lighter roasts also as well as dark roasts, I don't recommend u buy the traditional type lever like the pompei or the lsm 80/20. I don't suggest even the pid enhanced izzo alex because the pid only controls the single boiler but has no control over the grouphead which means u would still need to flush endlessly or cool the grouphead to change temperature there. My view is that only a hybrid lever like the nurri or the much more expensive LM LEVA X or the 2 group kvdw slim jim idrocompresso will give u the performance that rotating from medium to light to dark roasts require from a lever not unless u are prepared to do A LOT of faffing around.

[Andreas75]

If you were using light or dark roast with the Pompei did you change the settings on the pressurestat then? Guessed that that would change the temperature o the group head also.

[jasiano]

I don’t have one (but will eventually buy one once funds/space is available) but have you also looked the Londinium machines?

I’m sure there’s a few current and past owners that can chime in here

The R24 is the flagship ‘advanced’ lever with adjustable PI pressure. Supposedly the group is very temp stable and is a great machine for all roast types (from what I read).
The Vectis is the new and very simplified model - but more finicky if you want to pull lighter roasts as you’ll need to superheat the group by doing a sort of pre-flush.

[Andreas75]

I have looked at the Londinium R24 and think it is great, I would categorize this as an advanced along with the ACS and Nurri. If I would be allowed to buy ACS direct from the manufacturer the price for those are quite much lower than the price for the R24 and choosing between those two I guess I would choose an ACS then.

[amberale]

I am an owner (and fan) of an ACS Vostok.
I waited for it instead of the smaller EVO for the auto stop functions, rotary and larger commercial chassis.
The EVO will shortly come out with the same features and rotary pump.
There is very little difference between the ACS machines and the Nurri in terms of performance.

You don't mention a budget so perhaps consider a Lapera.
If you are in Europe then you may have a chance to buy a classic Brunetti Aurora or a Faema Lambro.
They don't have the LSM group but have a very loyal following.

I would not look at the classic designs of Cremina, Electra etc.
They require learning techniques that are still not consistent (I'm sure I will get shouted down by their fans )

[Andreas75]

Have actually been looking at both Brunetti and Lambro, and guess especially Brunetti would be able to perform rather well with lighter roasts too but not often I see those for sale.
Havent set an exact budget but unfortunately Lapera is to expensive for me, Vostok and Evo I can afford if ACS lets me buy directly from them, is way more expensive here in Sweden.

[amberale]

Understood Andreas.
I got in early on the Vostok but the freight and import duties were still expensive to Australia.
Have you spoken to Maria at ACS?
They are probably on holidays for the next month with the rest of Italy.
sales@mevsrl.net

[Andreas75]

I have not talked to them yet but I will soon. Think price for both Evo and Vostok is around 3-3500 euros if buying direct and in Sweden the price for the Evo is around 4700 euros which would bring it out of my budget.

[TheBoneRanger]

There are so many good spring levers on the market these days, so I think it's just a matter of figuring out what aspects of their designs are important to you. You're in for a good time regardless.

I'm having a tremendous time with a Londinium R24 with roasts of all levels. I know that with something like the Nurri I'd be unlikely to avoid the temptation of tweaking variables constantly. Oh to be more disciplined.

I find the R24 quick to dial in and get great coffee in near silence. I enjoy the simplicity of it, with a basic app to turn it on and adjust preinfusion if you want. It's a joy to use each day, as so many spring levers seem to be.

[Primacog]

There are so many good spring levers on the market these days, so I think it's just a matter of figuring out what aspects of their designs are important to you. You're in for a good time regardless.

I'm having a tremendous time with a Londinium R24 with roasts of all levels. I know that with something like the u be unlikely to avoid the temptation of tweaking variables constantly. Oh to be more disciplined.

I find the R24 quick to dial in and get great coffee in near silence. I enjoy the simplicity of it, with a basic app to turn it on and adjust preinfusion if you want. It's a joy to use each day, as so many spring levers seem to be.

I know it may seem that way with all those variables available but what I do with the Nurri nowadays is just set the exact temperature I want and just use it in the standard way. I hardly ever even do a blooming shot nowadays. It is just so straightforward and easy to get a great espresso or latte from it.

For eg today I decided to use a light roast despite the temp for both boiler and grouphead set to a lower temp for the dark roast I have been using. So I changed the temperature and went to grinding the light roast beans and preparing the wdt and tamping. By the time I was ready to fit the porttafilter into the machine, the temp for both grouphead and boiler had reached the required temperature.

[MaryYu]

I too would like to move to a lever machine as my next choice, but probably at the lower-mid level compared to many of the machines mentioned above.

The Quick Mill Rapida is a heat exchange lever with two PID controls for the boiler and (I believe?) the group head. Unfortunately Quick Mill don't tell us a lot about this machine, so I don't even know what sort of group head it has, or how its pump works, or if it can be plumbed??? But it is reasonably priced (here at least) and should reach usable temperature very quickly compared to the Izzo machines, for example.

Ditto with the Bezzera Strega - been around for a long time and lots of info available. I suspect it is very similar to the Quick Mill in terms of functionality. 58mm group head.

Profitec Pro 800 V2 - lovely looking machine, can be plumbed in, also switchable to tank and a vibration pump as an alternative to plumbing. It uses the dipper system for heating the group head, so is probably slow to heat up? Has a PID control for the boiler temperature so should be easy to adjust for different roasts. 58mm group head.

[WhatEverBeansNecessary]

I have the V1 Pro 800 and love it.
But yes it does take a while to heat up to temp, but this is no problem! I just put it on a wifi power plug with a schedule to warmup before I get up each morning. I just set mine to warm up at 5am and well and truly ready for a coffee by 6am. On the weekends its a little later.
If I know I will be up earlier for work, no dramas just set up a once off schedule to turn on a little early. Likewise while away I'll deactivate the regular schedule until i get home. It's also super handy being out and can turn it on so it's ready for a coffee before I even get home.

Normally it takes about 40 minutes to get to a steady state temperature but you can flush the grouphead a few time to get it there a bit quicker.

Can't attest to the Strega or Quick Mill but I have had my pro 800 for about 6 years (nearly 7 now) and never had any issues other than changing the odd degraded seal and regular routine maintenance. It still makes as good coffee as the day I bought it (maybe better now we have a working relationship!)

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

From the AB website, Rapida has a standard 58mm lever group (I guess similar or near identical to Londinium, Achille, Bosco, La Cimbali and many others). Looks to be a smaller version of the old 39kg Achille, with PID allowing a much smaller boiler. I doubt it could be plumbed in fully, but you can probably plumb in the drip tray. It has a vibration pump I believe (they'd be telling you if it didn't).

[Primacog]

Andreas, speaking of freight and customs duties for the nurri, if Sweden does not have any distributor currently, nurri may be able to directly ship the nurri to you at a substantially lower price. That has been done for a couple of owners in countries where there were no authorised dealers at the time. I suggest you contact Antonio Nurri at his email address to get an estimate from him. No loss if u did that as u can at least rule it out as an option I'd it is beyond your budget.

[Andreas75]

I actually been in contact with him a few times last year, probably 6 months since last time but back then he said he was in contact with a distributor in Sweden, however I havent seen the machine at any company here so maybe I should contact him again. As you say, maybe price will be much better then, think machines from ACS are about 1700 euros cheaper buying from ACS direct compared to distributor here.

[Primacog]

Thats right - I recall there was a member of HB who bought a nurri direct from antonio a few months before Clive coffee became the US distributor and no doubt the price he got his machine for would have been substantially cheaper as a result. Of course a good local distributor performs a valuable service that is well worth the premium that is paid but if u r comfortable to maintain and service coffee machines yourself, that is a good course of action for u to try and see if it is still available if a Swedish dealer hasn't come on board yet.