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  • #16
    Re: portaspresso - Rossa Hand Espresso

    Great work Andy - 15 posts in one thread in 90 mins. Not to mention the excellent not-formal review.

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    • #17
      Re: portaspresso - Rossa Hand Espresso

      Thanks for that Andy. Interesting stuff and great photos.

      A couple of questions.
      The stand - how stable/sturdy is it? It looks from the photo like the legs are solid stainless.

      Temperature? After warming and just before pulling the shot, what is the brew water temp? What is resulting shot temp, compared to that from a traditional espresso machine?

      Obviously temp is one if the most critical variables, and is one reason why we have pid controlled multi boiler machines. With that much brass to heat, I just dont have any idea what the shot temp would be, or how well the heat Is maintained.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: portaspresso - Rossa Hand Espresso

        Originally posted by 6E58574D6B58575A505550560809390 link=1317820483/15#15 date=1317826642
        Great work Andy
        Thanks WantRancilio! Looks like you need decaf too for finding my fresh post at 2am.


        Originally posted by 5C545A52504A4A565A52390 link=1317820483/16#16 date=1317852166
        The stand - how stable/sturdy is it? It looks from the photo like the legs are solid stainless.
        They are solid aluminium alloy, I dont know what grade but its one of the harder, heavier machine grade alloys that hold a good sharp thread (not your recycled coke can alloy).

        Sturdy? I guess I could nearly sit on it! The feet are far enough apart that it is very steady and are screwed into the base 15mm or so.

        Originally posted by 5C545A52504A4A565A52390 link=1317820483/16#16 date=1317852166
        I just dont have any idea what the shot temp would be, or how well the heat Is maintained.
        You didnt read post #11 above or just didnt believe me?

        Originally posted by 78575D40390 link=1317820483/11#11 date=1317823756
        Its really easy to get constant water temperature if you let the kettle boil, wait a couple of seconds and pour it in.
        Below is a roast monitor graph.
        Scale is 0-100C over 2 minutes with 2 plots per second.

        The green line rising from 60C to 98C is my kettle boiling so we can add 2C to give a corrected temperature.
        (ignore the rate of change green mountain graph).

        The black line shows the temperature drop of the Rossa. After a minute it had dropped from 96C to 91C

        By the time you pour the water, screw on the dosed basket and invert the Rossa it will be at the perfect espresso temperature.

        Originally posted by 5C545A52504A4A565A52390 link=1317820483/16#16 date=1317852166
        Obviously temp is one if the most critical variables
        No, flavour is. Temperature is just one of the variables that go into a great espresso shot and as shown is great in this device.

        Dont get hung-up on the science, instead try a shot and see if you like it. Im yet to find anyone who wasnt blown away by how good a shot you can get from it including a four different commercial roasters that have had a play with it at the Snobbery.


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        • #19
          Re: portaspresso - Rossa Hand Espresso

          Originally posted by 6E414B562F0 link=1317820483/17#17 date=1317870021
          Who me? wrote Today at 9:02am:
          The stand - how stable/sturdy  is it?  It looks from the photo like the legs are solid stainless.

          They are solid aluminium alloy, I dont know what grade but its one of the harder, heavier machine grade alloys that hold a good sharp thread (not your recycled coke can alloy).
          Yep, thought they were solid. Initial pics elsewhere looked like they could be hollow like my cheap camera tripod, but I thought that wouldnt fit with the rest of the construction quality and your picture seemed to show solid metal.
          Originally posted by 6E414B562F0 link=1317820483/17#17 date=1317870021
          You didnt read post #11 above or just didnt believe me?

          Andy Freeman wrote Today at 1:09am:
          Its really easy to get constant water temperature if you let the kettle boil, wait a couple of seconds and pour it in.
          Wasnt convinced about the constant bit, but really just wanted more data, from which comes information and then knowledge/enlightenment.

          Originally posted by 6E414B562F0 link=1317820483/17#17 date=1317870021
          Below is a roast monitor graph.
          Scale is 0-100C over 2 minutes with 2 plots per second.
          That does it for me. A picture is worth...
          Many thanks for posting it (and for taking the time to run the measurements), I know you are busy

          Nice slow drop in temp. As long as the filter holder is warmed appropriately it can obviously reach/hold true espresso temps.

          Most check boxes now ticked. Personally Id never buy something like this without actually seeing/touching/using and Im not in the market for yet another piece of brewing equipment today, but if I change my mind (could happen), a trip to Geelong would be called for.

          Originally posted by 6E414B562F0 link=1317820483/17#17 date=1317870021
          Who me? wrote Today at 9:02am:
          Obviously temp is one if the most critical variables


          No, flavour is.
          I think well have to disagree on that one. To my mind, once the shot is in the cup, it is a matter of evaluating results of the preceding variables (flavour being one of those results evident in the cup). I tend to side with Phil McKight and the folks at Breville that Espresso perfection, requires precision temperature and pressure control, consistently, every time. Doesnt mean Ive got there yet, but certainly a 5degree temp difference makes a huge difference. Single degrees, less so but still noticeable.


          Comment


          • #20
            Re: portaspresso - Rossa Hand Espresso

            Originally posted by 3038363E3C26263A363E550 link=1317820483/18#18 date=1317899952
            Many thanks for posting it (and for taking the time to run the measurements), I know you are busy
            Not a problem but you do owe me at least an hour of my life back now for not being convinced about  the constant.

            :

            oh... and Im more than happy to brew you dog poo at a precision temperature of 92.4 anytime you are willing to drink it.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: portaspresso - Rossa Hand Espresso

              Dear All..Im obviously very new to this site, but wanted to chime in right away about the Portaspresso system. First a couple of disclaimers...

              1) I dont know very much about espresso or really coffee for that matter.

              2) I didnt until yesterday own any kind of an espresso maker.


              So, Im a novice through and through. I have however drank a lot of coffee and a good bit of it quite good. We use handpours for our daily brew and buy fresh roasted coffee. Now, however, I own a Portaspresso machine and a Porlex mini hand grinder.

              I just want to echo the points made in Andys review. I have been able to consistently make a very good espresso shot (my tastes being uninformed by years of study, of course) with loads of crema and a very nice and smooth flavor. It really is a nice device.

              Here is what I do:
              Warm up the Rossa with hot tap water while I grind my beans and heat the kettle.

              Grind my beans two clicks from closed on the Porlex (I think this is the same as the Kyocera).

              I follow Ross Spencers (the manufacturer) guidelines on heating the device. Fill with boiling water for 20 seconds, dump, fill with boiling water for 5 seconds, dump.

              Then fill to 1 cm below the rim. Screw on portafilter and basket assembly with tamped coffee of course.

              Turn the crank until a decent amount of pressure is felt, but no producing espresso and let the device sit for 30 seconds.

              Begin turning the crank and producing espresso in a nice steady stream until I get about 30 ml  then remove the stream from the cup.

              Thats it. A very, very, good shot, consistently produced. My shots look very similar to the images Ross has posted on his webpage. Not bad for a rookie.

              What is great is that I can take this when I travel, to my office, and on my bicycle. Moreover, the fact that I am a blithering novice and can do this is really something.

              In all, a ringing endorsement for a quality product that will last indefinitely.

              Spence

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: portaspresso - Rossa Hand Espresso

                Welcome to CoffeeSnobs Spence.

                Originally posted by 35362328252331460 link=1317820483/20#20 date=1317914414
                Not bad for a rookie
                I guess thats something I didnt really say... this device is really easy to use to get great results (with fresh coffee of course).

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: portaspresso - Rossa Hand Espresso

                  Hi there everyone. Great review Andy. Its always strange reading what others say about my products, but I welcome all feedback.

                  Originally posted by 7758524F360 link=1317820483/6#6 date=1317822203
                  It came in at 54mm and on the basket above was a little too much gap for my liking.  After seeing the rest of the build quality I know Ross could have got a tighter fit but I expect the variable might be the basket manufacturer.
                  You guessed correctly. The baskets vary from Dia 55.0 to about 54.4, so I made them 54.0. A bit of clearance doesnt bother me, but Ill see if I can tighten them up a little.

                  Originally posted by 7758524F360 link=1317820483/14#14 date=1317825374
                  Now for the fun part.  Being a variable pressure machine you can fiddle with pressure profiling.
                  Ive just uploaded a video on Youtube to demonstrate a prototype profiling adapter I made and have been playing with for the last week or two. Good fun, and I can now put some numbers to what Im doing. There doesnt seem to be much interest in profiling at this point, so Im not sure about making more. If enough people show interest, Ill add the adapter as an accessory.

                  [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRrrGUXO3Ko[/media]

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: portaspresso - Rossa Hand Espresso

                    The profiler looks like a really cool bit of kit for people that want to explore what is possible in a coffee.

                    I liked your final quote in the video too...

                    "Not being able to profile is like having a car stuck in one gear"


                    8-)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: portaspresso - Rossa Hand Espresso

                      I dont really have a whole lot to add to this thread other than I hope all the work pays off for Ross, as it looks like a great piece of kit!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: portaspresso - Rossa Hand Espresso

                        I went to the La Marzocco factory in April last year. I wasnt allowed to take photos of the insides of the early production Strada machines that they had there on the production line as the technology on how they achieved their variable pressure pulls is patented... and La Marzocco didnt want any secrets to get out. It was, and still is cutting edge espresso machine technology.

                        Being able to vary the pressure of shots in the middle of a shot in a repeatable (and hopefully desirable) way is called pressure profiling.

                        I can vary the pressure of the water going through the coffee in my Cremina filter basket by applying more/less pressure on the lever. Its great!! When the shot is just starting to lose its rich, earthy browns/reds etc. I simply reduce the pressure of the lever (and the shot) and I get the most out of each basket of coffee. I get wonderful shots from my Cremina.

                        The concept of the Rosso is quite exciting for me as it will soon have a gauge (like the video clip showed) that will allow the operator to adjust the rate of the extraction in a repeatable way in order to get the most out of each pour of each different type of coffee. You will be able to extract a shot at different profiles eg.10 seconds at 9 bar, 5 seconds at 8 bar, 10 seconds at 6 bar....or anywhere that you find gives the best shot for a given blend or single origin....and repeat it next time. This Coffeesnobs dream!

                        It sounds like a great innovation on a portable machine. I cant wait to try one...It is just a pity that there doesnt seem anywhere that I can do this.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: portaspresso - Rossa Hand Espresso

                          Originally posted by 6958565556390 link=1317820483/25#25 date=1318839625
                          It sounds like a great innovation on a portable machine. I cant wait to try one...It is just a pity that there doesnt seem anywhere that I can do this.
                          Ill be in Melbourne in a couple of weeks time. So if anyone wants to organize a location for a demo, feel free to contact me.

                          As noted elsewhere, Ive been a little surprised about the lack of questions on profiling. That was until a person suggested that this could be that few people actually no what it is. This may well be the case, and if it is, I will be posting a detailed explanation of what profiling is all about, and more importantly, how to do it.

                          The article I intend to post online is about 3000 words, and will include two profile graphs with explanation. The article is complete, but I want to review it for a day or two before I release it. I do challenge conventional espresso theory, so just want to ensure that I can back everything up before you guys pound me into the corner!

                          I havent been able to find any info on the Strada to see how many variables can be programmed, but my testing has shown that you need the ability to control quite a number of variables for effective profiling. I wont say any more until I publish the article, but what I will say is that my shots are superb and repeatable, and the equipment doesnt need to cost $20K or more.

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                          • #28
                            Re: portaspresso - Rossa Hand Espresso

                            Anyone interested in reading about espresso coffee profiling might find the article available via the below link quite interesting.

                            "profiling can be defined as the process of seeking the optimum combination of fixed or variable temperature, pressure and timing which produces an infused espresso stream that flows at a rate that produces the preferred characteristics from a particular coffee"

                            Full article available at http://www.portaspresso.com/page003.html

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: portaspresso - Rossa Hand Espresso

                              An interesting read.
                              I would like to try it.
                              When will the profiling adaptor be available?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: portaspresso - Rossa Hand Espresso

                                Originally posted by 7849474447280 link=1317820483/28#28 date=1319080247
                                An interesting read.
                                I would like to try it.
                                When will the profiling adaptor be available?
                                Im still testing a few things, but I think I have the design about right. Once Im satisfied, Ill do a small run to get a few out there. No dates available at this stage, but any modifications will be interchangeable with the standard Rossa.

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