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Portaspresso Rossa HC-P vs. Rossa PG

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  • #16
    Sorry for the long silence but to update with my decision. I've ended ordering the Rossa PG for the reasons of consistency, ease of clean up and with the ability to still being able to play with pressure. As much as I love being able to have the full feeling of being able to make a coffee, time isn't on my side especially with no.2 on the way!

    Thanks everyone for all your input. Greatly appreciate all your advice.

    AntC1946 - Just wondering what pump you're using? I've got a floor bike pump but want to consider all options.

    samuellaw178 - Trust you to throw the forge into the mix! I did investigate this and looked into costs but at the end of the day the Rossa won because the costs were the same and would prefer to support Aussie made. I did read your review on the forge and was greatly impressed (and thanks for prolonging my decision ;-) )

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    • #17
      Hey pdmeyer,

      Which type of seal did you order for your PG cylinder? Standard is the brass version. Make sure you never over-tighten it. Brass has less springiness , so it is easier to have a lower pre-infusion pressure.
      Acetal has springiness, but seals better and prevents component damage. I

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      • #18
        Hey beo1329, with my conversations with Ross, I believe he recommended the Acetal seal due to the longevity.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by pdmeyer View Post
          Hey beo1329, with my conversations with Ross, I believe he recommended the Acetal seal due to the longevity.
          Ross told me this:

          "The acetal seat is designed to provide a better seal and prevent component damage, but the brass seat is better for pressure control because it has no springiness. "

          It more about component damage, rather than longevity. If you do not over-tighten the brass , it will be OK. Some people have really heavy hands or they forget that the seal is not meant to tighten it with force.

          Also he told me this: " It is quite hard, but still has a bit of spring. Importantly though, it seals well and won't damage the valve stem if over tightened. The brass seat is best for performance though because it has zero spring. Much better feel."

          I went with the performance. Ross might recommend the acetal to people, because a lot of people have damaged the seal , because they tightened the valve too much. This was the sole reason developing the acetal version. However if it has springiness, it would be difficult to register 0.5 and 1 bar. With the brass I can.

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          • #20
            I had no idea beo1329 that there was a major difference between the two. I'll have to have a bit of a think and see which one I would prefer. Thanks for the insight.

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            • #21
              Well, there is a big difference. If you can be sure that you will tighten it only gently, go with brass. Make sure you never allow anyone to handle the cylinder. Once I did that and the guy tightened it with some force, luckily there was no damage.
              If you want to play with pressure profiling, also go with brass. No springiness and if you charge the cylinder to 15 bar, you can be sure that you can manage a low pressure pre-infusion.

              I've exchanged a lot of emails with Ross, customer service is top notch and I'm glad that I can share the info with other users.

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              • #22
                Hi All. Sorry I have not responded earlier. Re the foot pump, initially I was using a borrowed bicycle tyre foot pump which could get up to 11 Bars at a struggle. After waiting for a while (things take longer to obtain in Tasmania) on Monday I took delivery of a Specialised Air Tool shock pump - which is far superior. I can now easily pump up the cylinder!

                I have used the acetal seal for a few weeks. Initially it did allow control for pre infusion and later control pressure ramp up. After a few weeks though that control has gone. Once the pressure begins to come through it just keeps on coming with little control available. The results remain good in the cup though.

                I plan to work on the brass seal to see if I can reduce or stop the bubbling as the 'profilability' provided by it is much superior.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by AntC1946 View Post
                  I have used the acetal seal for a few weeks. Initially it did allow control for pre infusion and later control pressure ramp up. After a few weeks though that control has gone. Once the pressure begins to come through it just keeps on coming with little control available. The results remain good in the cup though.
                  I plan to work on the brass seal to see if I can reduce or stop the bubbling as the 'profilability' provided by it is much superior.
                  I am unclear about this acetal seal, is this a washer that goes between the body and cylinder or is it a replacement O ring on the cylinder face ? Can someone post a photo ?

                  From your description I believe the problem you have is coffee grinds building up inside the tube on the pressure gauge, when that blocks it can show a jump in pressure in excess of what you anticipate with no ability to control it. To clean it carefully use a toothpick, the more solid round variety that will not break off, and gently move it back and forth inside the tube, then rinse the body making sure water can access the pressure gauge entrance and then give the Rossa body a firm shake / flick a few times with the gauge hole down and you will see grinds come out. Repeat the process until no more grinds are visible.
                  You should then have total control again.

                  If you get some coffee grinds, dirt or a fibre on the the face of the needle or seat you will get a slight leak showing as bubbling. You can unscrew the "knurled pressure control" from the cylinder body to give it a clean. The seat can also be removed from the base of the cylinder to be cleaned. I smear some Dow 111 on the surface before reassembling to preserve the surfaces.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Beanz. View Post
                    I am unclear about this acetal seal, is this a washer that goes between the body and cylinder or is it a replacement O ring on the cylinder face ? Can someone post a photo ?

                    From your description I believe the problem you have is coffee grinds building up inside the tube on the pressure gauge, when that blocks it can show a jump in pressure in excess of what you anticipate with no ability to control it. To clean it carefully use a toothpick, the more solid round variety that will not break off, and gently move it back and forth inside the tube, then rinse the body making sure water can access the pressure gauge entrance and then give the Rossa body a firm shake / flick a few times with the gauge hole down and you will see grinds come out. Repeat the process until no more grinds are visible.
                    You should then have total control again.

                    If you get some coffee grinds, dirt or a fibre on the the face of the needle or seat you will get a slight leak showing as bubbling. You can unscrew the "knurled pressure control" from the cylinder body to give it a clean. The seat can also be removed from the base of the cylinder to be cleaned. I smear some Dow 111 on the surface before reassembling to preserve the surfaces.
                    Well, I have been away for a little while and, on return, decided to improve my PG Air. But, firstly, here is a picture of the Acetal seal and the brass seal sitting on top of the air cylinder.

                    Click image for larger version

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                    My system (using the acetal seal) was not giving me much control but still producing very nice coffee. So I read the post from Beanz, took it apart and worked on the brass seal with Scotchbrite. Using a small amount of the material and a wooden toothpick I cleaned up the seal area using an up and down motion - carefully!! I could see a small area of damage and worked until it disappeared while attempting to keep the whole seal surface matching in shape.

                    I then took out the Pressure gauge from the body of the unit and, as suggested, cleaned out the opening with a toothpick. Some coffee grains were expelled. It didn't seem enough though and with further probing and slapping the gauge against the hand eventually a dam burst and water and coffee grounds that were jammed inside came out.

                    The unit was then put back together using plumbers tape on the gauge thread and with the cleaned brass seal. Now, a week later, the seal has bedded in, only a small number of bubbles appear when adding water to the unit - and the number of bubbles is reducing each use as things bed in further. I now have total control over the extraction. Yippee!!

                    Thanks Beanz and sorry for the delay in replying.

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                    • #25
                      Hello. Anyone in Perth with one of these? Please PM me.

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                      • #26
                        Well just placed my order for one! and a friend also! I'm going with PG and she is going with the HG ... ! my Prev user was dparham but i forgot password lol

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                        • #27
                          You and your friend are in for a treat! As said many times before, the Rossa is a functional work of art! Also, the shot at its best can rival a full size commercial spring lever machine easily, just not as convenient in the workflow. The PG in my opinion/experience is easier to master. Your friend may have a bit more learning than you but the end result is worth it - he doesn't have to worry about a pump! The gauge model helps speed up the learning process as well, great choice.

                          Also, take extra care to dry the device after use each time and reading the manual will give you the best. The Specialized UHP Airtool pump recommended above by Beanz is a great pump. Expensive, yes, but worth every cent if you're using it every day.

                          p/s: how long is the wait?

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                          • #28
                            We've had the HC since Dec 2015 and love it. I'm sure the pressure gauge would help with sharing pressure profiles etc, but if your focus is on churning out good shots for self, friends and family it doesn't take long to get a feel for it.

                            Re: cleaning the HC, there's a trick. Once you've pulled the shot put a container underneath and crank it _nearly_ all the way down. (If your mother-in-law is visiting you can pass off what you extract here as coffee - it's about what you'd get at a country town servo.) If you wind down all the way you will lose pressure because the barrel flares a little at the bottom. Leave it for a minute or two while you fluff around frothing milk, or enjoying your shot or whatever. Then crank it that last half turn and leave for another couple of minutes. By the time it's just cool enough to handle, 9 times out of 10 you'll have a dry enough puck to tap straight into the bin.

                            If you're making shots back to back it doesn't really slow things down much. The time it takes to reload the grinder and grind the next batch of coffee is about the time it takes for the puck to dry. Of course, if you want to grind straight into the filter basket, this won't work, but we have the mini grinder so can grind into the screw-on cup.

                            Re: resetting the crank handle between shots. Honestly, you don't really notice it after a while. Because there's no pressure you can use your finger much closer to the axis of the crank handle so each turn needs a lot less movement. Don't forget to use a little cold water to lubricate as per Ross' instructions.

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                            • #29
                              Congrats on your order! You won't be disappointed. My PG finally arrived about a week ago and I have been extremely impressed with the quality. I teamed it up with a Rosco and it's the perfect combination. I've been using the acetal seal which has helped me learn the boundaries of the devices. I'll probably change it over to the brass after a couple of months.

                              It's been so worth the wait and the after sales service from Ross has been amazing.

                              Now I've got to get rid of my HX machine as it's taking too much space.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by pdmeyer View Post
                                It's been so worth the wait and the after sales service from Ross has been amazing.
                                How long was the wait?

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