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My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

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  • coffeewise
    replied
    Re: My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

    Originally posted by 3E3922253E3932560 link=1231564967/23#23 date=1232333188
    Do you mean leave it open for .... how long ??entire warm up30+ min. Have to check this option out !
    Just leave the steam on until a little dribble of water comes out of the steam tip. This seems to help the thermostat kick in correctly. (look having said that I only assume the Piccolo works the same way)

    I am getting a couple in this week, one for doing demos. Salvatore (ECA) has run through the Piccolo with me and it seems to work the same as other machines.

    What I am basically suggesting is to make sure the machine has an ambient heat. This seems to give a better flavour. I am not entirely sure of the science behind this but from experience I have found that its all about maintaining consistent heat all the way through the process not just getting the flow from the head right. I even make sure my tamp is warm an obviously the cups.

    As far as leaving the machine on all the time. Because it is not plumbed and has a relatively small boiler I would probably not leave it on all the time. Although i do tend to suggest leaving the Giotto or the Vibiemme on. You may go through a few more seals this way but you will save on coffee in the long run. I am open to comments on this by the way as I am still learning after 20 odd years in the industry.

    James C

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  • hotshod
    replied
    Re: My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

    Thanks James .

    Ill take that on board and its pretty much what Im doing now except for opening the steam wand. Do you mean leave it open for .... how long ??  entire warm up  30+ min. Have to check this option out !

    What I have been doing, is turning on machine , for 10 min , boiler light has gone out by then , .....Next hit the steaming button to raise temp ,..... after it is out, leave for about 5-10min then start to flush thru group head & PF in 10 second  bursts wait 25-45 secs and repeat till boiler light comes on at BOC. When the light goes out at the top of the cycle I think it is pretty much heated up and stable maybe wait another 2-3 min.All that has still taken 25min plus.

    Do you think it is ok to use the heat from steam cycle in this manner ??


    Is there a reason why you wouldnt leave the machine on  all the time ?  I tend to start it at 7am  and let it run till after midday, maybe 2-30pm. I gennerally dont drink espressos after 4pm... (currently Im making an exception)

    Changing the subject slightly ...
    Ive had this machine for just on a week,( basicly know nothing) .... I  reckon the boiler could do with another 200mls, even though the temp is very consistant between TOC & BOC ,... and I know my technique is using more water than it should, I also think the water tank could  do with another half a litre + + . ( 3 or 4 ltr tanks must be wonderful) I have re adjusted the water cut-off which was leaving 1.2 litres in the tank unusable....
    It still seems a constant task of keeping water up to it. This is also at a stage where Im tossing away a few dud brews and going again. This will improve  when I have the technique down pat and just make my 2-3 shots per day.

    At this stage I definitely bought the right machine for our use. The Piccolo has no trouble at all heating milk for my wifes occasional cappuccino and its a perfect machine for an espresso fiend. A Hx machine is not needed in this house at the moment , though a bigger water tank you be appreciated.

    hotshod


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  • coffeewise
    replied
    Re: My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

    Hotshod,

    I reckon youve done well with the Piccolo. Just remember that this is a real coffee maker not a Saeco magic which lets you think you are making great coffee because of the crematic devices used.

    When you get your grinder if you haven;t already you will find a marked difference in the coffee results once you have the settings right.

    Something important to remember is that to get the best out of this sort of machine (including Silvia and up) is that you should haveit turned on for at least an hour before you start making shots.

    1. Turn the machine on
    2. Open up steam wand while it heats (normally what I do on any machine)
    3. Once machine is heated run through a couple of cups of water from the head.
    4. Let machine sit for at least 30 mins.
    5. Pour some seasoning shots
    6. Make yourself a great coffee.
    7. Make yourself another coffee and wonder what the hell went wrong with that shot
    8. Make another shot...........

    I like to get the machine to an ambient heat before use.
    Since we have been leaving our machine always on (at our cafe) the results have improved. I do not recommend leaving the Piccolo on all the time but if you give it a chance to heat all the way through it will give you a better result.

    Cheers
    James C

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  • Groggles
    replied
    Re: My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

    A useful discussion for me to ponder over, as I am considering upgrading from my ... saeco via venezia, and are considering similar machines and have similar requirements regarding usage. I also wanted to leapfrog the 6910 and Silvia, as while they both seem like a good step up from what I have also have their limitations. The machines discussed here all seem to adequately cover those shortfalls.

    Ill return to this thread when I have / Mr Rudd hands out more dollars
    cheers

    Greg

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  • TC
    replied
    Re: My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

    Originally posted by 3A3D26213A3D36520 link=1231564967/19#19 date=1232149734
    Thanks for the heads up  2MCM

    I chased up the supplier and retailer  and they found another PF.  At least with this new one I dont get burned on the steaming wand when Im inserting it .

    Check it out ......  ridgey didge..???
    Erm- not authentic VBM, but at least it fits. Its just a cheapie generic. nevertheless, itll do the job fine...

    2mcm

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  • hotshod
    replied
    Re: My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

    Thanks for the heads up 2MCM

    I chased up the supplier and retailer and they found another PF. At least with this new one I dont get burned on the steaming wand when Im inserting it .

    Check it out ...... ridgey didge..???








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  • TC
    replied
    Re: My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

    Originally posted by 7C7B60677C7B70140 link=1231564967/17#17 date=1231973951
    Here are some pictures.

    As I said , this was a display model , never used , but original packaging was lost and there is no name plate , just a compliance sticker on the boiler shield, Domobar appears but no manufacturing date.

    Definitely a Piccolo or previous version .....

    Interesting hotshod...Your group handle is also non-standard. The VBM does not have offset lugs and the handle is fluted with an open end....

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  • hotshod
    replied
    Re: My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

    Here are some pictures.

    As I said , this was a display model , never used , but original packaging was lost and there is no name plate , just a compliance sticker on the boiler shield, Domobar appears but no manufacturing date.

    Definitely a Piccolo or previous version .....





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  • GregWormald
    replied
    Re: My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

    Greg,

    9.2 sounds pretty reasonable. You could kick it up to anywhere just under 10, as the consensus seems to be that they lose about .5 or a bit more between the gauge and the brew head, but 9.2 is in the ballpark. The OPV is on the left of the machine close to the front. Clockwise on mine is higher--adjust till the gauge reads what you want (use the blind filter).

    The temp screw is under the cup warmer on the front right. Before adjusting it I recommend pre-heating a foam cup and fast-reading thermometer with boiling water and then pumping 50ml of water through the brew head to get an estimate of the temp. Anything close to 90° should be fine as the water cools very quickly.

    92-96° is ideal but I doubt youll be able to be accurate without a special thermometer attached to a group handle. Some people are fussy within .5 of a degree!

    Adjust the temp screw only about 1/12 of a revolution at a time--clockwise on mine is hotter.

    Remember that taste is the ultimate criterion, and without known fresh beans, a good grinder, and a well-judged extraction, the taste will be less than optimal anyway.

    HOWEVER--you should be able, with a bit of practice, to get shots that will put most cafes to shame, and satisfy you. Have fun and enjoy the coffee.

    Greg

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  • flynnaus
    replied
    Re: My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

    PM replied

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  • hotshod
    replied
    Re: My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

    Now ya tell me ....

    Just PMd you flynn.....

    First brews are not brilliant, temp appears a bit low.

    I dont know if my retailer can run those pressure tests , more just setup and service.
    Gauge on machine reads about 9.2 during brew extraction .

    Cant really do too much till a decent grinder is available.

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  • flynnaus
    replied
    Re: My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

    I dont think the name Levetta refers to a certain model. Mine says Vaschetta on the box but was sold as a Piccolo.

    I agree with Chriss comments. Budget mainly dictated my choice at the time of purchase but with the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had held out for an HX. As Chris (2mcm) and others have said, try to get it right the first time.

    Having said that, your decision to go for the (alleged) Piccolo is a good one for your needs which arent dissimilar to my mine. The careful maintenance routine I dont mind because of the problems avoided and the benefits reaped.

    When you get the machine, depending on where you live, I would have someone run a pressure gauge portafilter and Scace device over it. Also do a home barista course (and get a good grinder!!!)

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  • A_M
    replied
    Re: My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

    A pic or two would be nice

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  • hotshod
    replied
    Re: My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

    Thanks 2mcm

    Today I had a reality check, and re-read all those posting over again concerning my needs, 2 espressos a day + 3 milk  brews per week ..... Plus the wife and I live in a small house with limmitted kitchen bench tops, no kids , no inlaws nearby. The Bezzera was starting slipping from view.

    Whilst still having a soft spot for the BZ99 , I just dont need a Hx machine to produce good Espressos. I came to the conclusion if I could buy the VBM at a good price locally Id go for it, if not the BZ99 was a chance still.
     As it turned out the retailer was quite keen to move the little VBM on and a deal was struck.!!!! The search was over !!!!... Then he couldnt locate the box and another $50 was deducted + threw in 1kg beans / $30 tamper /back flushing pills / and a blind PF basket. So all in all I think I very pleased with my new toy.

    I havent been able to find a name on it or a manufacturing date so I presume its a Piccolo  or maybe the model before , Levetta , it has  black sides ,and it may have been sitting on display for quite sometime , certainly  the ticketed price was no reflection on current Piccolo prices.

    By weeks end I should have a new grinder and then the real fun starts.

    I would really like to thank all the folks who put forward their valued opinions , some of whom Ill be chasing up looking for more info.

    Cheers
    Greg
    "hotshod"

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  • TC
    replied
    Re: My Dilemma...Piccolo / Venus / BZ99 (used)

    Originally posted by 7D7A61667D7A71150 link=1231564967/9#9 date=1231760460
    Thanks guys for the input , I really neeed to make a decission and stop this relentless searching of websites.

    It appears every time you look at the next level , add another $300 something better is looking back at you.
    That said , Im still very much split between the Vibiemme Piccolo and Bezzeras BZ99S as my two options.  :-/

    Here is another dilemma,...  I think the Piccolo would serve me very well , but I do like the added features of the Hx BZ99.

    So when Im comparing apples with apples , or should I say E-61 Single boiler machines with other  E-61s can I assume that all E-61  SB are going to perform equally as well as each other , and it is only build quality, design or appearance  that is a factor of an individuals choice...!

    **** Why I ask is I feel I can buy the Piccolo at a good price,..... a very good price.
    So should I be comparing it other SB E-61 .... namely  The Isomac Zaffia  or the Diadema Perfectta.
    If these 3 were lined up against each other in the "E-61 Single Boiler Stakes Handicap Race" , could I expect personal  preference to win out, but espresso, crema and taste to be a deadheat, presuming they all have the same jockey.

    Remembering that my usage is 2-3 Espressos per day , and my good wife will have 3 milk brews on the W/end.
    I have a liking for the Perfectta but the Piccolo is well ahead in the dollar department. Am I likely to get equal performance from the E61 SB trio???

    Cheers
    hotshod
    Hi Hotshod,

    All the single boiler machines are very good- but the need to be looked after.

    If milk is a priority- you have family, entertain or get frustrated waiting, hold your horses for a HX machine. You may well find a pre-loved 2nd hand machine which will fit your budget. Keep in mind also that every time you upgrade, you lose $$$. Try to get is as close to right first time....

    This may in time save you looking at the greener grass over the fence. Also, there have been a few cooked elements in this class of machine recently. I suspect that this may be due to users pushing them beyond their capabilities.

    One bonus of the Diadema is that it has an inspection plate underneath which allows for a rapid element change. The VBM requires the boiler to be removed. I am unsure what is required on the Isomac as I have never worked on one.

    Enjoy the research

    2mcm

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