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  • em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    hi guys,

    well after 2months of practise on my new em6910 and producing decent shots (to my standards), ive hit a hitch:

    Ive noticed that in the process of pulling my shots there seems to be water spurting from side of the grouphead. In terms of cleaning and maintanence i do my best to keep in top notch - before and after every shot i use the rubber disk (provided) to clean the machine which now also spurts water out when doing so.
    In terms of locking the PF well, I turn it all the way till the handle is facing to the right. Ive noticed however contrary to when i first used the machine, that the PF locks in too easily now without any pressure as it did when i first purchased the machine.
    As to pulling the shot, in order to get that right flow ranging in 20-25sec, the guage always has to hit the red (choke) section, otherwise the coffee flows out too quickly.

    All the above were explained to Sunbeam customer service but to my surprise it seemed to me that all the representative wanted to do was worm her way out of admitting that there was a problem with the machine...every point ive listed above she said was wrong; that i shouldnt make my coffee too fine and that its ok if the shot is pulled in 5sec as long it looks good...it was ridiculous.

    I called back (in hope of recieving someone a little more understanding)...she was worse than the first. I explained to her that water is leaking regardless when i overextract or underextract which she replied that it was normal and blamed it on my grinding and tamping technique.

    After useless arguing back and forth, her conclusion was that i could take it to the service centre but if they dont find problem then i would be charged...i honestly dont understand what the hell is the point of having a warranty on a $600 product if thats the service u get.

    Im going to call for the third time and if i recieve the same treatment then ill take it up with their manager (stupid of me not to note the names of the first 2 employees) but before i do so i thought id post my issue here and see if anyone could tell me if there really is a problem to be concerned about or if anyone else has had similar issues.

  • #2
    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Baz

    Like many things  being on site is worth a thousand words and a hundred phone calls..

    Thus I am tossing up some points...  

    1: Where are you..  

    2: Sounds like a group seal has split

    3: Over dosing and locking to hard to the right can contribute 2 collar issues and crushed seals

    4: If you have to choke it to deliver the right flow, then I would suspect that there is something not quite right in your machine or / and your method..

    5: Why would you use teh rubber disk B4 and after every shot...  Not required..

    6: What PF ?

    7: What grinder

    8: What beans ?


    Baz... I had a look back and your sweet spot was around 1:00 if so and your going to RED then it could be the BEANS / Grind / Tamp.... This could also cause a problem with the seal..

    I know roads are down every where... But I have Thursday and Friday up my sleeve and heading over to W/Manly at some stage.. Only too happy to drop in, or if your over Wooloowin way.. Happy to demo mine and or play with yours..

    AM

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

      Baz, sounds like a barrel of laughs!

      Reading threads here it would appear that it totally depends on who you get on the other end when you ring Sunbeam. I had issues with my Cafe Series grinder just prior to attending the Sunbeam course (grinder needed calibrating). I was able to get a washer of the guys at the course and was more than willing to do it myself. I gave Sunbeam a ring to get the "how to" in order to install the washer and i was told that it has a 12 month warranty so i should take it back to the place of purchase and get a new one! (Much to my surprise). Received the new grinder, touch wood, no problems since!

      I was a little surprised that they were willing to throw the warranty issue back onto the retailer. After all the warranty is between the customer and Sunbeam? However, not sure if its worth your effort to maybe deal with your retailer?

      As for the comments regarding pulling your shot and the gauge reaching the red. I find unless it gets well into the red i get a quick, gushing shot. Our course instructor actually told us to totally disregard the gauge and may well have used the words "its a waste of space" (agreed)!

      Anyway, not sure this really helps your issue but maybe give your retailer a go. If not keep on ringing Sunbeam every hour either a) in the hope that you get an operater with a brain or b) you get the chance to speak with a manager (maybe even one that drinks coffee)!

      Good luck

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

        Originally posted by 0A252C2E39062A252A2C2E262E253F4B0 link=1242812958/1#1 date=1242813559
        Baz

        Like many things  being on site is worth a thousand words and a hundred phone calls..

        Thus I am tossing up some points...  

        1: Where are you..  

        2: Sounds like a group seal has split

        3: Over dosing and locking to hard to the right can contribute 2 collar issues and crushed seals

        4: If you have to choke it to deliver the right flow, then I would suspect that there is something not quite right in your machine or / and your method..

        5: Why would you use teh rubber disk B4 and after every shot...  Not required..

        6: What PF ?

        7: What grinder

        8: What beans ?


        Baz... I had a look back and your sweet spot was around 1:00 if so and your going to RED then it could be the BEANS / Grind / Tamp....  This could also cause a problem with the seal..

        I know roads are down every where... But I have Thursday and Friday up my sleeve and heading over to W/Manly at some stage..   Only too happy to drop in, or if your over Wooloowin way.. Happy to demo mine and or play with yours..

        AM
        Hey AM,
        ive spoken before, youre in brisbane right? coz im in sydney (lakemba).

        as to the rest of the questions;
        -the rubber cleaning disk; i thought it wouldnt damage if i done it twice, now i only do it after a shot, is that still not required?

        - well in terms of choking it to get a right flow might method involves a grind level of 9-11 (on em0480) any coarser produces too quick of a flow,
        tamping at around 8-10kg,
        dosing at 5- 5.5mm from surface (this the first ring setting on a pullman tamper) so i get this consistently.

        -beans are fresh from beanbay (yaman)

        -PF is the standard dual spout

        how do i know if the group is split?
        can it occur if you choke the machine too many times, coz i must admit i done this a few times in the learning process.

        by the way the customer service rep kept buggin me that my dosing was wrong and that my grind at 9 was too fine when i explained that i tested every grind level started from 19 and this was the level that produced the best flow.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

          Originally posted by 24273C7E727E73460 link=1242812958/3#3 date=1242816176
          Hey AM,
          ive spoken before, youre in brisbane right? coz im in sydney (lakemba).

          as to the rest of the questions;
          -the rubber cleaning disk; i thought it wouldnt damage if i done it twice, now i only do it after a shot, is that still not required?

          - well in terms of choking it to get a right flow might method involves a grind level of 9-11 (on em0480) any coarser produces too quick of a flow,  
          tamping at around 8-10kg,
          dosing at 5- 5.5mm from surface (this the first ring setting on a pullman tamper) so i get this consistently.

          -beans are fresh from beanbay (yaman)

          -PF is the standard dual spout

          how do i know if the group is split?
          can it occur if you choke the machine too many times, coz i must admit i done this a few times in the learning process.

          by the way the customer service rep kept buggin me that my dosing was wrong and that my grind at 9 was too fine when i explained that i tested every grind level started from 19 and this was the level that produced the best flow.
          Opps... Too many people to keep track..

          1: I flush after a shot... But not using teh disk etc..   It is more of a dump the puck - wipe,  softly reset and run a manual and wiggle the PF..  It is just to clean the grinds...

          2: Bean Bay fresh...  Green or brown ?  If brown how old...   How long do you leave in the grinder

          3:  If you try to check teh SB sweet spot and shee leaks... YA seal has split!!!!

          4:  How often have you done a popper back flush ?

          5:  When did you last remove teh shower head to clean it ?

          6: When you do, the Blue group head seal should be removed and checked..

          7:  Is the PF  singe or DOUBLE  floor ???

          8:  While your approach as to adjusting teh grind is good... As teh beans age it will reduce the crema and make for a fast flow..

          Thus I still believe it is an issue of Grind / Beans / Tamp..  Sorry... But thats my experience to date..  Both at home, work and others I have assisted...

          YES.. The RED line / Choke and over locking etc can cause teh seal to let go... And if your not cleaning correctly ... Then coffee grinds can get forces into the system and cause problems..

          I have a 3mm space approx, use  4-6 kg at max and get good stuff out at about 12:00 to 1:00 and runs to about 20 -25 sec most times before I pull the shot...  Yes it can start to go golden, but is still thick/ creamy - not runny / watery..

          A fresh roast, that I pulled to early at start of FC ( forgot to look and was reading) will gush at about 10-15 sec...  A week - 10 days later and good for 20-25 sec.  If I leave them in teh grinder Over Night and grind later the next day or leave grinds in my tin... A gusher.  Even though my other actions are the same...

          Coffee is like a living product... It is dynamic and is always changing..  Thus you have to read it and change to suit it...




          Comment


          • #6
            Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

            water spurting does sound like group seal, but if you are jamming the PF past about 5 oclock on the group head, it could be a combination of seal split and worn collar (maybe).

            The seal is easy enough to check, undo the screw on the shower screen and remove both shower screen and dispersion screen, seal is located above these and just prises out easily with a little gentle persuasion. A quick check with the eye-crometer will soon tell you if there is a split in the seal.

            5 - 5.5mm below the surface sounds almost under-dosed. When you load in the PF to the group head, pull it out immediately and check the puck, is there any impression of the shower screen on the top of the puck (should be quite faint). I think AM (?) has suggested putting a 5c coin on the top of the puck for a good measure, I could be mistaken?

            If the seal is split, these are readily replaced via your local sunbeam agent, just make sure that they also send you some silicon spacers with the seal, as odds are, the new seal and the PF will not gell together and you will still get leaking.

            If the seal is not split, then it could be a worn collar issue. Not necessarily from choking the machine, but potentially from overdosing your coffee and / or putting too much pressure when loading in the PF into the group head.

            For my machine, it is quite a gentle push to get it into place, very little force (1/2 or less than a normal tamp) and I have no issues with leakage (Im on my 1st replacement seal which leaked like you describe until I got some silicon spacers).

            All these are easy checks / fixes. I guess the greater issue is Sunbeams apparant lack of CS skills in this instance which if they had suggested a split (or crushed seal) and told you how it could be checked may have alleviated any angst. Perhaps given the machine is only 2 months old, they werent expecting that sort of issue however

            Sen

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

              Originally posted by 02343F30253E23510 link=1242812958/5#5 date=1242818789
              water spurting does sound like group seal, but if you are jamming the PF past about 5 oclock on the group head, it could be a combination of seal split and worn collar (maybe).

              The seal is easy enough to check, undo the screw on the shower screen and remove both shower screen and dispersion screen, seal is located above these and just prises out easily with a little gentle persuasion. A quick check with the eye-crometer will soon tell you if there is a split in the seal.

              5 - 5.5mm below the surface sounds almost under-dosed. When you load in the PF to the group head, pull it out immediately and check the puck, is there any impression of the shower screen on the top of the puck (should be quite faint). I think AM (?) has suggested putting a 5c coin on the top of the puck for a good measure, I could be mistaken?

              If the seal is split, these are readily replaced via your local sunbeam agent, just make sure that they also send you some silicon spacers with the seal, as odds are, the new seal and the PF will not gell together and you will still get leaking.

              If the seal is not split, then it could be a worn collar issue. Not necessarily from choking the machine, but potentially from overdosing your coffee and / or putting too much pressure when loading in the PF into the group head.

              For my machine, it is quite a gentle push to get it into place, very little force (1/2 or less than a normal tamp) and I have no issues with leakage (Im on my 1st replacement seal which leaked like you describe until I got some silicon spacers).

              All these are easy checks / fixes. I guess the greater issue is Sunbeams apparant lack of CS skills in this instance which if they had suggested a split (or crushed seal) and told you how it could be checked may have alleviated any angst. Perhaps given the machine is only 2 months old, they werent expecting that sort of issue however

              Sen
              Well put together... 4 some one across that narrow strip of salty water... So how is Tasy ?


              Sorry... Its late and I took a call and was in teh middle of a BF1942 battle... I hope Baz calls again in the morning, cause he did not call back.. Soz Baz...

              Sen... Shame your on teh South Island... I may be getting over to the Nth Island in a couple of months.. Either way... I will give ya a heads up.

              AM


              Comment


              • #8
                Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

                Originally posted by 1A353C3E29163A353A3C3E363E352F5B0 link=1242812958/4#4 date=1242818211
                2: Bean Bay fresh...Green or brown ?If brown how old... How long do you leave in the grinder

                i use brown, my batch now is about 2weeks old

                3:If you try to check teh SB sweet spot and shee leaks... YA seal has split!!!!

                this doesnt happen all the time, sometimes it leaks and other times it doesnt


                4:How often have you done a popper back flush ?
                whats this??
                if ur talkin about cleaning with rubber disk, then everytime i use it i apply it at the end


                5:When did you last remove teh shower head to clean it ?
                is this the screw in the grouphead, if so i have not cleaned it since purchase (2months ago)

                6: When you do, the Blue group head seal should be removed and checked..
                not done

                7:Is the PFsinge or DOUBLEfloor ???
                double

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

                  Originally posted by 0F39323D28332E5C0 link=1242812958/5#5 date=1242818789
                  but if you are jamming the PF past about 5 oclock on the group head, it could be a combination of seal split and worn collar (maybe).
                  its definately passed this, maybe around 4
                  ill follow ur directions and check the seal for any splits

                  Originally posted by 0F39323D28332E5C0 link=1242812958/5#5 date=1242818789
                  just make sure that they also send you some silicon spacers with the seal, as odds are, the new seal and the PF will not gell together and you will still get leaking
                  what are these and wat do they do? do i just ask the repair technician for it?

                  Originally posted by 0F39323D28332E5C0 link=1242812958/5#5 date=1242818789
                  If the seal is not split, then it could be a worn collar issue.
                  how do i check this?

                  sorry for the hassle, but you and AM have been more helpful then the company that built the product :-?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

                    Baz Im not far from Lakemba if you want me to have a look at it.
                    Send me a PM with address details and I can try to find some time soon to drop by.
                    Theres a Sunbeam service agent in Kingsgove if you need a new seal. Hopefully hell have some in stock.

                    AM please post your "sweet spot" test again for me in this thread so I can use it on Bazs machine.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

                      Originally posted by 0935283339382F3A32395D0 link=1242812958/9#9 date=1242825801
                      Baz Im not far from Lakemba if you want me to have a look at it.
                      Send me a PM with address details and I can try to find some time soon to drop by.
                      Theres a Sunbeam service agent in Kingsgove if you need a new seal. Hopefully hell have some in stock.

                      AM please post your "sweet spot" test again for me in this thread so I can use it on Bazs machine.
                      No problem TG...

                      All you need is one of the pressurized PF, or worse case the cleaning rubber on and a non pressurized PF.

                      Put it into place and run a few shots... The pressure will climb and should then reach a value (Usually some where between 11 to 3 ).

                      Now the trick is that the double floor and the single hole (0.7mm if memory is ok) are designed to simulate the correct and ideal extraction pressure. Thats why you can / should be able to get So SO LOOKING shots, from crap beans...


                      Thus if you get 12:00, then previous experience says that with the right raw product and preparation... (ya know, Beans/grind/tamp/water temp/head temp/ etc etc) Then when you run a shot for real, and value on teh gauge is around what you got in teh test or a little more. Then ya know you in teh ball park.. If the extraction is poor... Then you know as well as I do that it could be many things...

                      I have wanted to run that SB basket in some of the other commercial machines and see what it reads ... Could be interesting...

                      The other thing of course, is that it is also a reasonable test to check out the seal.

                      Best of luck TG... Would like to think a split seal and some basic understandings is all it is..

                      Keep us in teh loop...

                      AM




                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

                        Originally posted by 033F2239333225303833570 link=1242812958/9#9 date=1242825801
                        Baz Im not far from Lakemba if you want me to have a look at it.
                        Send me a PM with address details and I can try to find some time soon to drop by.
                        Theres a Sunbeam service agent in Kingsgove if you need a new seal. Hopefully hell have some in stock.

                        AM please post your "sweet spot" test again for me in this thread so I can use it on Bazs machine.
                        thanx champ...ill pm you my number and feel free to buz/sms me if your ever driving past.

                        Originally posted by 16393032251A36393630323A323923570 link=1242812958/6#6 date=1242824125
                        Sorry... Its late and I took a call and was in teh middle of a BF1942 battle...I hope Baz calls again in the morning, cause he did not call back.. Soz Baz...
                        i wasnt the person that called :-? but ill try buz ya tomorw afternoon if i geta chance

                        i just unscrewed tha shower screen took off the shower screen and dispersion screen...the only damage i could see on the seal was there were 2 very slight tears (1mm) located on the edge, inside the circle of the seal...theyre located opposite to one another.
                        also the dispersion screen had burnt coffee stain on it, which i wiped off with a damp cloth but replaced everything back.

                        i done that sweetspot test again with rubber disk, and first time water spurted, then stopped, took of grouphandle re-adjusted rubber disk; this time no water.

                        im off for now gusy...ill have to deal with it tomorow coz ive got over 100pg to read for class tomorow :-/
                        thanx for all tha help guys

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

                          I would guess that it is a combination of those two tears as well as the possibility of a wearing collar that are causing your problems.

                          I would be inclined to order a replacement seal (and silicon spacers) from the local sunbeam agent, get these fitted and then see how things go.

                          With the new seal in place (with spacer 1 or 2 tops) your group handle should sit at around 6 oclock when pushed into position, much further past that and its onto the 2nd possibility, the collar. Given your machine is only 2 months old, I wouldnt fret about that yet, its under warranty.

                          If your seal has only lasted 2 months, a humble / concilitary style phone call to sunbeam may yield you a free seal / spacer. Plead your case nicely and be respectful to the rep on the phone. Even though it is a wear and tear style item, I would think that 2 months is a touch short of most peoples expectations for a group seal in a domestic situation. CS staff are often more willing to go the extra mile for a nice customer than an angry one.

                          And AM - A BF42 battle, wow, I thought I was obsessed for still playing BF2 3 1/2 years on.

                          Sen

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

                            Originally posted by 71474C43564D50220 link=1242812958/12#12 date=1242854933
                            I would guess that it is a combination of those two tears as well as the possibility of a wearing collar that are causing your problems.

                            I would be inclined to order a replacement seal (and silicon spacers) from the local sunbeam agent, get these fitted and then see how things go.

                            With the new seal in place (with spacer 1 or 2 tops) your group handle should sit at around 6 oclock when pushed into position, much further past that and its onto the 2nd possibility, the collar. Given your machine is only 2 months old, I wouldnt fret about that yet, its under warranty.

                            If your seal has only lasted 2 months, a humble / concilitary style phone call to sunbeam may yield you a free seal / spacer. Plead your case nicely and be respectful to the rep on the phone. Even though it is a wear and tear style item, I would think that 2 months is a touch short of most peoples expectations for a group seal in a domestic situation. CS staff are often more willing to go the extra mile for a nice customer than an angry one.

                            And AM - A BF42 battle, wow, I thought I was obsessed for still playing BF2 3 1/2 years on.

                            Sen  
                            thanks buddy, ill give sb another go, but might get TG to take a look at it first.
                            and believe me i spoke nicely on the first and second call to sb last time, but they lack any sort of real communication skills (manly in listening to a customer) ..anything i explained was either ignored or rudely interrupted by an irrelevant question...its like a computer that sticks to set of procedures, and ONLY knows those rules - to me this isnt customer service...
                            which is what worries me in even explaining your points to them senator...but im gona make sure i got all my facts right this time before i call, so if i gota deal with another zombie (not to my surprise) then at least i know what im talking about and can take it up with the manager if necessary.

                            thanks again for all the support...ill recommend you to SB headquarters...if i ever get there  8-)

                            btw if this is a result of me placing the grouphandle in forcefully, then i have only myself to blame bcoz the groundhandle originaly tightened in the 6oclock mark, but due to my negligence in taking advice from youtube clips, i saw a few a guys on their who locked the handle in further upto 4oclock mark, and so i thought my initiall approach was incorrect and effecting the shot...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

                              Originally posted by 01373C33263D20520 link=1242812958/12#12 date=1242854933
                              And AM - A BF42 battle, wow, I thought I was obsessed for still playing BF2 3 1/2 years on.
                              Arrr, if you started out at the release... You would be likely to know my Son...

                              Well his AKA anyway... Same a BF1942 and the DC mods... He is / was actually one the of best in Australia and was in the top 10 World wide.. But alases he has an attitude and like always... When ya good, many think your cheating or hacking..

                              For me I have been under the same AKA since the days a dial up and bulletin boards.. Not that many to day would even know what that is...

                              Thanks for dropping in and adding comment to Baz... I would like to think he has not stuffed the group collar, as he was under dosing.. But hey ya never know... Sounds like teh seal has had it...

                              But if TG gets to have a look, I am sure that Baz will be looked after....

                              OH... TG have you a Blue Card ??? ;D

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