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Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

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  • Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

    Hey guys,

    To give you some background information, my parents bought a Saeco Talea Giro automatic machine (http://coffeemachine.com.au/saeco-talea-giro-coffee-machine-p-167.html?osCsid=eaf3b10ca8c641d1f34dc0f8decd895e) and we ended up returning it because it gave us so many hassles (coffee would come out EXREMELY slowly, machine error lights keep on flashing...).

    Since we have a chance to do some more research before buying now, Ive decided to help them out and find some alternatives. They spent about $1200 for the Saeco so Id probably be looking to spend about the same amount or less if possible.

    So basically, as you all probably already know, the Rancilio Silvia/Rocky combination is quite popular, and I think I may just go with it, but Ive got a few questions to ask.

    Usage
    I might start off by explaining how much coffee we make. Basically, there would probably be about 3 cups maximum in the morning and then MAYBE 1 more in the afternoon. Basically, we wouldnt use it very much at all - but we do want some good quality coffee.

    Questions
    • So judging by our lack of use, is the Rocky/Silvia a bit of overkill? Are there cheaper fully automatic ones that could suffice? I remember people recommending the Nemox Dell Opera (http://coffeemachine.com.au/nemox-dell-opera-p-106.html?osCsid=eaf3b10ca8c641d1f34dc0f8decd895e) - would this be better?
    • If I wanted to save money, should I get a cheaper grinder or a cheaper coffee machine? I have read that grinders are more important, but since we are not major fanatics, nor do we use it that much - would it be wiser to get a better machine with more functionality? Or am I just talking nonsense at the moment?  :-/
    • Regarding the Rocky grinder, there are doser and doserless versions. Ive done a bit of reading and although nothing seems too clear cut to me (probably because I dont understand most the terms), it seems that the Doser version would suit me most because there is less cleaning? (It also looks a lot better to me!!  )
    • If I were to get a cheaper grinder, would the Nemox Lux Grinder be appropriate? (http://coffeemachine.com.au/nemox-grinder-p-108.html?osCsid=eaf3b10ca8c641d1f34dc0f8decd895e)
    • If I were to get a cheaper machine, would the Nemox Junior Coffee Machine (http://coffeemachine.com.au/nemox-junior-coffee-machine-p-171.html?osCsid=eaf3b10ca8c641d1f34dc0f8decd895e) or the Nemox Fenice Espresso Machine (http://coffeemachine.com.au/nemox-fenice-espresso-machine-p-126.html?osCsid=eaf3b10ca8c641d1f34dc0f8decd895e) be okay with the Rocky grinder? [Note: Im actually just looking at products from http://www.coffeemachine.com.au]
    • With the Saeco Taleo Giro, it took about 1-2 minutes to warm up. And wed have to constantly put more water or re-fit the pieces to get rid of the error lights. There was also the occasional water-priming to be done. Will this combination make things easier or more hassling? Im aware that it does take about 30 minutes to warm up (and were happy to use a timer system for that). But how often does cleaning have to take place and what does it involve?
    • Also, do I need to buy a tamper for this? Anyone know if I need a 51mm or a 58mm? Im looking at this one at the moment: http://coffeemachine.com.au/tamper-58mm-p-99.html?osCsid=eaf3b10ca8c641d1f34dc0f8decd895e
    • Do I need to buy a portafilter or is that included?
    • With regards to warranty, would you recommend me to buy from a Melbourne dealer (thats where I live) so I can go to the store with any problems? Or is the manufacturers warranty sufficient? My parents feel that buying from Myer or similar department stores are better because they are more willing to help solve problems.
    • Are there any other coffee machines/combinations that I should consider?


    Okay I just realised that is quite a bit.
    If you can offer any bit of advice, that would be well appreciated!

    Thanks,
    Duncan

  • #2
    Re: Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

    welcome and good first post, nicely detailed.

    You might want to edit out the links and have a read up on the site posting rules which dont allow you to put links to commercial sites that arent sponsors

    Secondly, good combo choice. You wont find many on here recommending an auto over any combination, let alone one like the sylvia / rocky combo.

    You are spoilt for choice in Melbourne with several sponsors (see over <<<<<<======== thataway) located there. You will always be recommended seeing them as opposed to a dept store, very few people are more passionate about coffee and the coffee industry than the sponsors on here.

    Good Luck

    Sen

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

      Originally posted by 4A7C77786D766B190 link=1243827022/1#1 date=1243831370
      welcome and good first post, nicely detailed.

      You might want to edit out the links and have a read up on the site posting rules which dont allow you to put links to commercial sites that arent sponsors

      Secondly, good combo choice. You wont find many on here recommending an auto over any combination, let alone one like the sylvia / rocky combo.

      You are spoilt for choice in Melbourne with several sponsors (see over <<<<<<======== thataway) located there. You will always be recommended seeing them as opposed to a dept store, very few people are more passionate about coffee and the coffee industry than the sponsors on here.

      Good Luck

      Sen
      Coffee machine Express are sponsors, Sen

      2mcm

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

        Duncan,

        The machines you mention are basically single boiler, so are pretty similar. If you want good to great espresso you dont have much choice but to start with these, so it is not overkill.

        You need to look at boiler size/material and other features like a 3 way valve, standard [58mm] or non standard PFs plus aesthetics, local support etc.
        None of these factors alone are game-breakers, but its the combination of their collective whole that is important.
        Best way is to try one out.

        The Quaha/Nemox family of machines are well regarded but seem to have suffered with poor distributors over the last few years, I dont know if that has been resolved these days.


        Great espresso is about thermal stability and typically you need lots of metal to achieve this....So longer warm up times are required.
        Timer can help, but you can also speed up the warm-up time [eg 15min] by running hot water through the group [blank shot].

        A good grinder is more important than the machine so dont skrimp on it.
        The ones you mentioned are a good starting point though.
        If you were an espresso drinker moreso than a latte drinker I would recommend you get a stepless grinder rather than a stepped grinder.

        Doser vs Doserless....Its is a personal preference, but I think its fair to say there are probably more people who have migrated from doesrless to doser than vice versa.

        No Coffee Snobber would actually use the doser filled all the way up...we just grind what is required for the shot through the doser.

        The doser breaks up the clumps and distributes the grinds into the PF with much less mess than doserless.

        Some people have commented that the rocky doser is not up to the same build quality as the rest of the machine...they do look good in blue though.

        Your cleaning routine should be a water backflush every day or so [you need a 3way valve machine for this] and a chemical backflush every 2-3 weeks...otherwise you will taste bitter coffee.

        Most of use would also wipe around the group, PF and wand following every shot or at least every session.

        The plastic tampers rthat ship with a machine are pretty useless and make it very difficult to get a good shot.
        A quality well fitted metal tamper is required...the size depends on the machine you buy..
        <======Pullman Tamers are very good

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

          Originally posted by 1D425A4C474C4049494A4A424E412F0 link=1243827022/2#2 date=1243831463
          Originally posted by 4A7C77786D766B190 link=1243827022/1#1 date=1243831370
          welcome and good first post, nicely detailed.

          You might want to edit out the links and have a read up on the site posting rules which dont allow you to put links to commercial sites that arent sponsors

          Secondly, good combo choice. You wont find many on here recommending an auto over any combination, let alone one like the sylvia / rocky combo.

          You are spoilt for choice in Melbourne with several sponsors (see over <<<<<<======== thataway) located there. You will always be recommended seeing them as opposed to a dept store, very few people are more passionate about coffee and the coffee industry than the sponsors on here.

          Good Luck

          Sen
          Coffee machine Express are sponsors, Sen

          2mcm

          Thatll teach me for giving it a man look between customers at the shop [smiley=embarassed.gif]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

            Originally posted by 65797475647F7F687C707F110 link=1243827022/0#0 date=1243827022
            My parents feel that buying from Myer or similar department stores are better because they are more willing to help solve problems.
            Hmmmm, sounds just like my parents

            My personel experience with these kind of outlets,

            1. They will not be able to give you any helpful advise about making coffee or coffee machines or even ask you what you actually want from your coffee in the first place.

            2. They drink instant coffee [by choice] in their breaks.

            3. When you call them because you machine is making crap coffee, They wont be in a position to offer any helpful advise that  may solve your problem.
            More often than not coffee machine problems relate to process [ie your method] rather than a faulty machine.

            4. Waste your time by requesting you  bring back your machine for repair without them clearly understanding the problem.

            5. Not offer you a replacement machine during the repair process.

            6. Not care / bother or even be able  to correctly describe the actual issue to the repairer

            7. Have very little influence over  the nominated repairer, so turnaround times end up horrendous, and the quality of the work is unchecked.

            8. Return it to you [untested by them] directly from the repairer so you may  still have the same problem.

            9. Suggest you bring it back for repair when you call again with the same problem.

            10. Offer you a like for like replacement machine once you jump up and down and scream that their products and service is lousy.

            11. Suggest you bring the newly replaced  one back for repair when it has the same problem as the first.

            12. Eventually, when you realise they do not carry any experience with or actually stock machines that can produce real coffee, you will demand you money back, but be forced to settle for a store credit voucher.

            So 4 months down the track you will  end up:

            1. Without a machine,
            2. A bitter taste in your mouth from the crap coffee the original machine[s] made.
            3. An even more bitter taste in you mouth left by the the whole sorry process
            4. A voucher to a store that you now hate that also has nothing to purchase you actually want.

            So you  end up giving the voucher to you parents, because they can find some use for it.

            End Rant... >

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

              As a fellow (very frustrated) newbie, I just want to put it out there that the Silvia/Rocky might not be for everyone. Although it comes very highly recommended there is a definite and very steep learning curve, especially for newbies. If you and/or your parents arent likely to like fidgeting around with the machine for at least a week, then I just want to put it out there that this might not the machine for you. That said, texturing milk is easy on Silvia (though it will take 30-45 seconds to get good steam going).

              Ive just gone through about 1.5 kilos of beans and still nowhere near satisfied with the quality of coffee im getting (though this is possibly because im a newbie.)

              Myer is convenient, but Im not sure youll get the level of after sales service that youd want from them.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

                Welcome to CS Duncan.
                And reubsters replies are very well put.
                Take heed.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

                  I have had a very similar machine to a Silvia, allied to a Rocky grinder, and it was easily capable of better coffee than most of the cafés I had tried.

                  As tashie has said, making good espresso requires some keen attention to a number of very critical areas. Its not hard, its just important that you do everything the same each time, and use high quality ingredients. Finding what "everything the same" actually is, can take a while. If you are willing to learn to do this, then you will beat a fully automatic machine.

                  Buy from a sponsor--they are CoffeeSnobs, and will treat you with the respect that your addiction to fine coffee deserves.

                  You will need a decent tamper--the ill-fitting ones that come free with most machines are worth what you paid. While I love my Pullman Barista Id be willing to bet that I could get 90% of the result with a plastic version that actually fit the basket--so a major expense here can wait.

                  Greg

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

                    In case I came out wrong, what I meant to say was the Silvia is a beautiful machine BUT will require the user to put in some time to get good coffee. You will get consistently average coffee with autos, and home machines i.e. lower end Brevilles and Sunbeams (usually with pressurised baskets) will be much more forgiving to lapses in the baristas technique.

                    In any case, if you get a Silvia and find its not for you, youll find that the resale value is fantastic.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

                      Originally posted by 3D283A21202C490 link=1243827022/9#9 date=1243851984
                      Silvia is a beautiful machine BUT will require the user to put in some time to get good coffee.
                      Swap Silvia for any other machine and that comment is still true.

                      Its more true to say "making good coffee requires some time and effort".

                      Grant

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

                        ditto FD.

                        The Silvia & Rocky are great machines!! yes they need some practice but once you have a handle on them, for the $$ IMHO you wont get anywhere near the quality of build, quality of coffee, and longevity.
                        These machines will last you a long time if looked after, and will outlast all other cheaper machines.

                        The Silvia comes with everything you need to get started and from there you can and should upgrade some parts- the baskets to Synesso baskets, and a decent Tamper- a lot here use the Pullman tampers- exceptional quality and fit.

                        Starting with a great espresso machine is important but even more important is to start with a great grinder-as others have said dont skimp on this!!

                        If you are after something that is still good (not as good), but is easier to use, and cheaper look at the Sunbeam 6910 and EM 0480 grinder combo. Not as good as the Silvia and Rocky, but still good units.

                        Whatever units you get, practice makes perfect. Its about the jouney (enjoy it) and about the destination!!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

                          Originally posted by 7B7B7B757970707373160 link=1243827022/11#11 date=1244012073
                          The Silvia comes with everything you need to get started and from there you can and should upgrade some parts- the baskets to Synesso baskets, and a decent Tamper- a lot here use the Pullman tampers- exceptional quality and fit.
                          Well, youll need a new tamper and a milk frothing jug, both of which are not included. Good tampers dont come cheap...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

                            Owning a silvia/rocky combo is fun, how boring would life be if everything was "easy"!, there is so so so much info on using these machines correctly on this site, so much experience, it is a real challenge, and to quote someone on here recently, if you can use a silvia and produce good shots.....you will feel at home with any other machine!, like trying to ride a bike without training wheels straight up, you may get hurt trying but you will one day ride a bike! lol

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Quick questions for a newbie: Rancilio Silvia/Rocky

                              it is an adventure one frought with occasional distasters, some victories and hopefully lots of fun and enjoyment!! Becareful it becomes addictive though!! ;D

                              Comment

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