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Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

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  • Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

    I recently purchased my first Rancilio Silvia from coffee-a-roma.  Great machine so far apart from the coffee not tasting quite right.

    I have managed to pulled a number of shots where the coffee has looked perfect.  25 seconds, great crema, made with fresh coffee from beanbay, ground with a quality burr grinder.  I also temp surf (bring boiler to fully heated, then purge the overly hot water) .  I have tried a number of beanbay beans. I backflush the machine as per instructions every 10 days or so. The machine makes 2 or 3 coffees a day and I bought it new.  But the coffee is still overly bitter.

    If the pour is looking good (60mls doubleshot in 25-30 seconds) but the coffee tastes off what should I try next?

    - PID to make sure I have good temps?
    - Getting the pressure of the machine tested (somehow, any suggestions?).

  • #2
    Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

    How long after you turn the machine on before you make your shots?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

      Im not leaving it a long time.

      - switch it on with a quick water purge,
      - 2-5 minutes later put some hot water into a coffee cup and portafiller.
      - 1-3 mins of fussing around grinding coffee
      - Purge water till the light comes back on
      - When light switches off, purge water for 2-3 secs till it stops gurgling (temp surf method)
      - Brew.

      Leaving the machine on longer and/or putting water through it will help reduce the bitterness I am experiencing?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

        Espresso, by its very nature, will be bitter to the palate.

        Its just so concentrated. Even if you pull a perfect shot it will be bitter.


        Try removing the crema. It kills most of the bitterness in one simple step.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

          Originally posted by 5F4E5A4349465B555F4E2F0 link=1271070177/2#2 date=1271074016
          Im not leaving it a long time.
          Leaving the machine on longer and/or putting water through it will help reduce the bitterness I am experiencing?  
          Simple answer is probably
          However coffee by its nature is bitter

          Every part of the machine needs to warm up or reach a working temperature for good operation

          Not unlike a car "yes"  it will drive cold but it operates at its peak when it reaches its optimum operating temperature

          Try a 30 to 40 minute warm up and compare
          KK

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

            Bitter coffee usually comes with high temps or overextraction, sour shots are "generally" caused by cooler brew temps, what baskets are you using? and are you temp surfing correctly? have you tested the temp of the water coming out? foam cup works works ok to test temp, google it.....

            Also are you trying to steam then pull or pull then steam? and are you leaving it for the brew head to settle (10-15mins) after steaming prior to pulling more shots?


            cheers
            warren

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

              Originally posted by 6776627B717E636D6776170 link=1271070177/2#2 date=1271074016
              Leaving the machine on longer and/or putting water through it will help reduce the bitterness I am experiencing?  
              Based on some careful work done by others the Silvia takes 20-30 minutes to come up to temp properly. As was put above here what you may be getting is sour rather than bitter but not good to taste anyway. Lots more reading around the place from those with a lot more experience on the Silvia in particular but leave it for 25-30 minutes and see if that helps  

              A little reading here http://www.coffeecrew.com/gear/411-l...ancilio-silvia and here http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espress.../134251?Page=1 actual data from PID kits here http://pidkits.com/warmup.html also I have seen a quick heat up method by the Coffeekid but your better to wait for a more uniform result.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee


                I also temp surf (bring boiler to fully heated, then purge the overly hot water)
                I never used this method, preferring to just wait a prescribed time after the light went out.
                Have a read through the "Id really like to PID" thread stuck to the start of this section, theres good info there regards times and temp, consider adding a thermocouple, it helps a lot.
                Silvia takes 40-45 minutes to warm up, when I installed a PID I fitted the t/c temp meter I was using to monitor boiler temp to the group head, it does take a while to warm up.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

                  If you are electronic savvy and have a keen interest to learn, there is my super cheap DIY pid install guide here too(its a sticky).......
                  http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1246334170

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

                    With all the above advice re: heating taken, bitterness can still be the result of over-extraction.

                    I cant tolerate a full extraction myself and only drink ristrettos. Try grinding a bit finer to get 25 ml or so in 20 seconds from a double and see how you like that taste.

                    Greg

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                    • #11
                      Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

                      Thanks for the great advice guys.

                      Yesterday I actually pulled three coffees in a row and I drank the last coffee, and it actually did taste a lot better. So I think heating the machine correctly will help. I have a brother who is an electrician so a PID will also be in the machine in the coming weeks.

                      I have some fresh coffee arriving today so I will try a 30 min warm up and quick extraction.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

                        Originally posted by 3120342D2728353B3120410 link=1271070177/10#10 date=1271221805
                        I have a brother who is an electrician so a PID will also be in the machine in the coming weeks.

                        I wish I had a brother who was an electrician!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

                          Good to hear your on the improve Now you have a good starting point just change one thing at a time from here and taste see if its better or worse then tweak accordingly. Its an easy thing to try two or three things at once and not progrees.

                          keep playing 8-)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

                            FWIW

                            i have sour coffee out of my 2009 silvia at times. i think it is due to temperature being too low. i know that 15-20 min warm up does not appear to be long enough for silvia. i find usually ~30min is enough. today i conducted an experiment and warmed it up for ~1 hour. it was a waste of time, IMO. The coffee was no better than with 30-35min warm up, at least not on silvia (2009 model).
                            i dont play games with the steam button - i think it just wears out the machine more for no good reason. i just prime the machine, wait 30min, and then (when ready) i pour some hot water from the head until the heating light comes on. Then i wait for it to go off and then i lock the PF and make by double-shot. It seem to be enough to make a good double espresso.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              !!!!!!!!!!!

                              Just got a new Silvia yesterday and so far it has been fun learning, it's coupled with a Rocky doserless grinder. I'm sitting on a grind of about 7 and have an extraction of about 20-30 seconds before it blondes. The coffees coming out quite bitter and i'm unsure why. The beans are roasted freshly so i don't think it's them.
                              Any tips on un bittering my coffee?

                              Comment

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