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Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

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  • f1lupo
    replied
    had the exact same problem after 2 years of woenership and trying every possible thing with beans, cleaning, bakfflushing, temp surfing etc etc BUT my espresso shots finally got rid of the bitter/ burnt taste when I took aprt and manually cleaned the 3 way valve. I took pictures for those that are afraid to take apart their Silvia's just to show how straight forward it is AND to prove that backflushing is not enough to solve this problem.

    Man Cave Ramblings: bitter/burnt tasting espresso after trying everything on Rancilio Silvia ?

    Leave a comment:


  • KJM
    replied
    I don't have a Silvia anymore, but I would offer a couple of suggestions.

    The first - as nabsie suggested is temperature. You can measure shot temperature with a multimeter and a bead type thermocouple. You will kill the thermocouple doing this after a couple of goes (up and over the edge of the portafilter). Nothing quite like actually measuring it to see if that is the problem. I drilled a hole in the bottom of a portafilter and used a naked group handle to make this easier. That was a winner..

    Second suggestion - if you're using the Rancillio baskets - get some replacements from one of the sponsors. I used LM baskets at the start and then bought a VST which resulted in a better shot - although the VST is a bigger basket so that's a bit like comparing apples to pears.

    But as dr.a.j.pickering pointed out - only change one thing at a time....

    /Kevin

    Leave a comment:


  • dr.a.j.pickering
    replied
    Originally posted by azeworai View Post
    After 25 seconds,
    if shot < 20 ml then //this will be Bitter
    adjust tamp with less force
    After 25 seconds,
    if shot > 30 ml then //this will be Sour
    adjust tamp with more force
    !
    Dont change you tamp, do that the same always.

    You should change only one variable at a time. Easiest way to get used to finding the right extraction is to weigh your dose and keep it consistaint (cheep jewellers scales from a extreme hong kong based website are a deal) and change your grind to get the extraction right

    Leave a comment:


  • azeworai
    replied
    Hi,

    I have a silvia as well, i'm not an expert but here are some of the things I do.

    Use recently roasted beans... I usually use the beans I roast myself (after a few days* of degassing), I find that the supermarket beans tend to blonde early for me and generally don't taste as nice.

    The following will help you if you've got your temperature surfing sorted out, and you're still getting bitter shots.

    You got to make sure you're tamping at the right pressure. If you've tamped too hard the shots coming out will be burnt and bitter.

    I usually use a small shot measuring glass that helps me tell if I've got this right. Generally after 25 seconds ideally I'd like about 25 ml of espresso.

    So to give you a rough guideline that I noticed:

    After 25 seconds,
    if shot < 20 ml then //this will be Bitter
    adjust tamp with less force
    After 25 seconds,
    if shot > 30 ml then //this will be Sour
    adjust tamp with more force

    Hope this helps!
    Last edited by azeworai; 30 July 2012, 07:13 PM. Reason: realised he has a grinder so took out the line about grinding just before use.

    Leave a comment:


  • Keyansep
    replied
    Alright that sounds good, i'll post a photo of when i cut the stream off to show maybe i'm cutting it off too late? This morning the shot was a lot less bitter which was nice, i'm using the double dose basket i'll try that tamping/dosing technique it seems similar to what i'm doing, i might be over dosing just a little bit.

    Leave a comment:


  • sidewayss
    replied
    Do you cut off the shot when it starts to blond? Stop brewing as soon as blond starts appearing. This way you are avoiding the bitter compounds being extracted, same way as tea if you leave the tea bag or tea leaves in for too long.

    Miss Silvia demands that the technique is done correctly, or she will slap you in the face with her bitterness.
    Done right, she will reward you with a sweet kiss of dark gold.

    Indicator of right dose: the concave ring markers on the inside of each Rancilio filter basket is the indicator. Dose below that, you have under-dosed. Above the marker, you have over-dosed.
    Try this. Grind into the portafilter to a mound. Tap once on the bench or prongs of the grinder to collapse the grounds. Tamp, evenly as this is important for an even extraction. Wipe off the lip of the portafilter and lugs. Do not worry about tapping the sides or banging it on the bench to distribute any loose grounds or the risk of fracturing the carefully tamped puck is increased and it may cause channeling.
    Aim to use the markers of the tamper as your guide. Once that's done, you should look to see if the top of the grounds is level with the inside ring indicator of the basket. A bit of practice, and you'll get it right.
    Brew. Look at the pour and see if it runs in a thin straight stream with a consistency of thin honey. Cut it off as soon as blond appears.
    Golden brown is good. Blond sucks.

    You've only had your Silvia for not long, so given more time and getting to know her better, you'll be enjoying great coffee.

    Leave a comment:


  • Keyansep
    replied
    I get the boiler to cycle twice and once the light goes off i wait ~30 seconds before pulling the shot

    Leave a comment:


  • nabsie
    replied
    Sounds like the temp might be too hot when you pull the shot. Are you temperature surfing?

    If not, jump on youtube and check it out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Keyansep
    replied
    !!!!!!!!!!!

    Just got a new Silvia yesterday and so far it has been fun learning, it's coupled with a Rocky doserless grinder. I'm sitting on a grind of about 7 and have an extraction of about 20-30 seconds before it blondes. The coffees coming out quite bitter and i'm unsure why. The beans are roasted freshly so i don't think it's them.
    Any tips on un bittering my coffee?

    Leave a comment:


  • acid_rider
    replied
    Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

    FWIW

    i have sour coffee out of my 2009 silvia at times. i think it is due to temperature being too low. i know that 15-20 min warm up does not appear to be long enough for silvia. i find usually ~30min is enough. today i conducted an experiment and warmed it up for ~1 hour. it was a waste of time, IMO. The coffee was no better than with 30-35min warm up, at least not on silvia (2009 model).
    i dont play games with the steam button - i think it just wears out the machine more for no good reason. i just prime the machine, wait 30min, and then (when ready) i pour some hot water from the head until the heating light comes on. Then i wait for it to go off and then i lock the PF and make by double-shot. It seem to be enough to make a good double espresso.

    Leave a comment:


  • beanflying
    replied
    Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

    Good to hear your on the improve Now you have a good starting point just change one thing at a time from here and taste see if its better or worse then tweak accordingly. Its an easy thing to try two or three things at once and not progrees.

    keep playing 8-)

    Leave a comment:


  • tashie
    replied
    Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

    Originally posted by 3120342D2728353B3120410 link=1271070177/10#10 date=1271221805
    I have a brother who is an electrician so a PID will also be in the machine in the coming weeks.

    I wish I had a brother who was an electrician!

    Leave a comment:


  • paulfitzpa
    replied
    Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

    Thanks for the great advice guys.

    Yesterday I actually pulled three coffees in a row and I drank the last coffee, and it actually did taste a lot better. So I think heating the machine correctly will help. I have a brother who is an electrician so a PID will also be in the machine in the coming weeks.

    I have some fresh coffee arriving today so I will try a 30 min warm up and quick extraction.

    Leave a comment:


  • GregWormald
    replied
    Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

    With all the above advice re: heating taken, bitterness can still be the result of over-extraction.

    I cant tolerate a full extraction myself and only drink ristrettos. Try grinding a bit finer to get 25 ml or so in 20 seconds from a double and see how you like that taste.

    Greg

    Leave a comment:


  • WSullivan
    replied
    Re: Rancilio Silvia - Bitter coffee

    If you are electronic savvy and have a keen interest to learn, there is my super cheap DIY pid install guide here too(its a sticky).......
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1246334170

    Leave a comment:

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