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Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?

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  • Cooper69S
    replied
    Re: Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?

    Originally posted by 254F260D05620 link=1275790026/0#0 date=1275790025
    Any help is appreciated.

    Cheers,
    Geoff  
    Gday Geoff
    one thing you havent mentioned is your cleaning regime.  when I did the sunbeam course (twice for two sunbeam machines I had), they emphasised the benefits of backflushing with water every day, and with chemicals every couple of weeks.  The same was recommended when I bought my HX machine, and given the cost of the machine, Ive tried to stick to that practice.  I was never as consistent with cleaning the Sunbeam and Im pretty sure that contributed to the problems it had.  Regular cleaning and descaling is critically important, and neglected by many machine owners.
    Another issue that comes up a lot is the steam performance dropping off over time on the Sunbeam.  my brother recently bought a new EM6910 to replace his 3yo broken one, and saw a huge difference in steam power.  contrary to the sunbeam manual, you probably need to descale the steam side of things as well as the brew path - theres a few posts on here recommending that you might do it outside to avoid breathing in steamed descaler solution - but it apparently fixes that issue.
    After several years using my old Sunbeam, Id reckon your next step as an upgrade would be a HX machine, where youre looking at $1500+ for a second hand machine, or $2k+ new.  you get to keep features such as being able to brew and steam at the same time.  keep in mind that a second hand hx machine only costs about what you would have spent on a sunbeam + silvia, and will last for many years with proper maintenance.  When I bought the sunbeam I considered a hx to be out of reach but really, given how long it will last, it may not end up costing much more at all in the long run.  If youre not following the recommended cleaning practice, Id fix the Sunbeam and try it for a while to see if its better.
    Another thing that has been mentioned over and over in this thread is that you MUST use a grinder and fresh beans if you want good coffee.  it is simply not optional.  sure you get coffee with supermarket pre-ground beans, but youll never get good coffee that way.
    fresh beans will likely cost you no more than your supermarket ones.  youll probably find that there is a roaster somewhere near you, or a cafe that sells fresh beans from the roaster they use, or otherwise even a postal service.  I use all three of those options and pay around $8 to $10 per 250g for coffee roasted within about 3 days or so of when I buy it.  To get it cheaper, I normally buy 1kg at a time that lasts around 3 weeks, but if youre not using that much, 500g at a time would do.
    hope that helps.

    Geoff

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Re: Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?

    Originally posted by 6C786B64606B6F0A0 link=1275790026/24#24 date=1276043026
    I recently sold my Silvia and after 6 years lost $200.
    Sounds like someone got a bargain unless there was something wrong with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • franjae
    replied
    Re: Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?

    I had a Quaha/Lelit before the Silvia. I actually made money on that after two years. I recently sold my Silvia and after 6 years lost $200. Go buy a near new Silvia and you wont lose much.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Re: Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?

    Originally posted by 2F3F2839397F7E7D757A7E4D0 link=1275790026/22#22 date=1276032196
    Others should be aware however that I did maintain my machine properly despite heavy usage.
    Likewise, oh and after 9 years not a trace of rust, perhaps because we lived in the desert.

    Leave a comment:


  • brett230873
    Guest replied
    Re: Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?

    Originally posted by 68545D4550310 link=1275790026/21#21 date=1276031199
    Originally posted by 3E252433727A78724A0 link=1275790026/20#20 date=1276005044
    I wish I had spent my $700 on a Silvia rather than my now defunct em6910.

    In the short time i owned it, it leaked, the steam stopped working and finally the powerboard failed - all within 6 months of ownership and very little use.

    Sunbeam are famous for their appalling after service  - they referred me to a service agent who (without even seeing the machine) told me that the fault wouldnt me covered by warranty as it was a result of cockroaches nesting in my machine.

    I sold the machine as a non working unit for $100. So I loose $600 for the pleasure.

    The sunbeam grinder I bought with it lasted 2 weeks. Sunbeam actually did replace this.

    id really have a think about the long term value of buying this brand before outlaying some hard earned cash ( I wish I had of ). An extra $200 spent on a quality machine might mean an extra 5 years enjoyment.

    Based on my personal experience only of course.
    I had the opposite experience Tony, bought a Silvia in 2001 and sold it a few months ago (after 9 trouble free years) for $50 less than what I originally paid for it, the new owner is delighted.
    For what its worth I never found the size of the drip tray or water tank to be a problem.
    Not much comfort to you I know, but thought it may be helpful to others contemplating buying a machine or an appliance.  
    I had pretty much the same experience as Jon with my Silvia which had heavy use for 10 years. Bit of rust under the drip tray cut out and repaired at about year 5 and sold it for $450 (purchased 1998 for $679) to a nice couple who had a revolving door of superautomatics and were coming to the end of their warranty period. Others should be aware however that I did maintain my machine properly despite heavy usage. All the best!

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Re: Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?

    Originally posted by 3E252433727A78724A0 link=1275790026/20#20 date=1276005044
    I wish I had spent my $700 on a Silvia rather than my now defunct em6910.

    In the short time i owned it, it leaked, the steam stopped working and finally the powerboard failed - all within 6 months of ownership and very little use.

    Sunbeam are famous for their appalling after service  - they referred me to a service agent who (without even seeing the machine) told me that the fault wouldnt me covered by warranty as it was a result of cockroaches nesting in my machine.

    I sold the machine as a non working unit for $100. So I loose $600 for the pleasure.

    The sunbeam grinder I bought with it lasted 2 weeks. Sunbeam actually did replace this.

    id really have a think about the long term value of buying this brand before outlaying some hard earned cash ( I wish I had of ). An extra $200 spent on a quality machine might mean an extra 5 years enjoyment.

    Based on my personal experience only of course.
    I had the opposite experience Tony, bought a Silvia in 2001 and sold it a few months ago (after 9 trouble free years) for $50 less than what I originally paid for it, the new owner is delighted.
    For what its worth I never found the size of the drip tray or water tank to be a problem.
    Not much comfort to you I know, but thought it may be helpful to others contemplating buying a machine or an appliance.

    Leave a comment:


  • tony8028
    replied
    Re: Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?

    I wish I had spent my $700 on a Silvia rather than my now defunct em6910.

    In the short time i owned it, it leaked, the steam stopped working and finally the powerboard failed - all within 6 months of ownership and very little use.

    Sunbeam are famous for their appalling after service - they referred me to a service agent who (without even seeing the machine) told me that the fault wouldnt me covered by warranty as it was a result of cockroaches nesting in my machine.

    I sold the machine as a non working unit for $100. So I loose $600 for the pleasure.

    The sunbeam grinder I bought with it lasted 2 weeks. Sunbeam actually did replace this.

    id really have a think about the long term value of buying this brand before outlaying some hard earned cash ( I wish I had of ). An extra $200 spent on a quality machine might mean an extra 5 years enjoyment.

    Based on my personal experience only of course.

    Leave a comment:


  • franjae
    replied
    Re: Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?

    I dont think one machine is better than the other, all down to preference. I have used the 6910 and it will kill me if I had to use it all the time. The Silva is much better so long as you are only making one or two cups at a time.

    All I will say is the more money you throw at a machine, the more effortless coffee making (esp milk based) will be......

    Leave a comment:


  • A_M
    replied
    Re: Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?

    Originally posted by 475850434E4B4F4F220 link=1275790026/16#16 date=1275975600
    Since we purchased the M6910 in 2007, we have been very happy with the quality of coffe it makes. We use supermarket coffee - usually 250gm pre-ground bricks from Woolies, and when used with the dual floor filter basket the result is (usually) a very nice coffee - better than many weve had from cafes, but not as good as the very good ones. We only drink lattes, so are making the same thing every time. The EM6910 guage sits at about the 1 oclock mark with the dual floor filter, and if the machine was reliable wed be happy to keep using it.
    Consider the Sylvia a SIDEgrade. If you have been using pressurized baskets, it will become a DOWNgrade.


    Only with fresh beans and good technique will the sylvia be an UPgrade.
    And if ya use freesh coffee and good technique on the EM6910; even less of an upgrade / more side grade ..

    Use  " supermarket coffee - usually 250gm pre-ground bricks from Woolies"and the Silvia will not provide what you expect..

    As we all keep saying ... Tis the person between the floor and the group.. PBFAG  that makes the biggest difference - Assuming all things are equal.

    If ya using stale beans etc then no machine will fully cater for it.. And all but a few users; will be able to adjust grind and tamp to simulate a good coffee..

    Note: To me the biggest down fall is the 300ml boiler..

    Temp surf / A double shot... / Steam milk for  Coffees...  and a quick steam purge... Maybe a clean of the group....

    STOP !!!!!!!     Prime or ya might burn the boiler out..

    Prime, wait... temp surf... Pull two shots / flush / steam milk / purge

    Prime, wait... temp surf... Pull two shots / flush / steam milk / purge

    Any leaking or fail to Prime before or after ya session and there is a risk that the element will be done and dusted..

    See it posted time and time again.. PS. Dont let ya flat mates or girl friend make a coffee on a Silvia when ya not at home.. Mate of mine has had 3 elements get destroyed this way... Over a short time..

    He now takes his group with him...  But it did not stop the last burn out..  They turned on and went looking... Could not find group.. Got distracted and went and did other things..

    I understand the Apprentice in question was servilely beaten to within an inch of.....  Yep he paid in two ways for the  short coming...  Cash and some hard physical entertainment..

    Not a CSér but bought from a CSér..  OH... I also understand he is looking to upgrade  ;D





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  • stucci
    replied
    Re: Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?


    Sunbeam water tank is 3L, which doesnt seem much bigger, but it tends to last quite a bit longer without all the cooling flushes etc.

    Not sure about the drip tray, but the Sunbeam is substantially bigger, and looks like it is meant to be there. As oppose to Silvia where the drip tray looks like an after thought! (My opinion only of course!)

    Leave a comment:


  • ezralimm
    replied
    Re: Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?

    Since we purchased the M6910 in 2007, we have been very happy with the quality of coffe it makes. We use supermarket coffee - usually 250gm pre-ground bricks from Woolies, and when used with the dual floor filter basket the result is (usually) a very nice coffee - better than many weve had from cafes, but not as good as the very good ones. We only drink lattes, so are making the same thing every time. The EM6910 guage sits at about the 1 oclock mark with the dual floor filter, and if the machine was reliable wed be happy to keep using it.
    Consider the Sylvia a SIDEgrade. If you have been using pressurized baskets, it will become a DOWNgrade.


    Only with fresh beans and good technique will the sylvia be an UPgrade.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?

    Originally posted by 333435232329400 link=1275790026/14#14 date=1275973458
    Btw, Silvia has a small water tank (2L) and tiny drip tray (~600ml), so you will be for ever tending to both
    How big the Sunbeam ones.
    They dont appear much bigger.

    Leave a comment:


  • stucci
    replied
    Re: Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?

    As someone who has done the opposite of what you are planning, and "side-graded" from Silvia to 6910, this is quite a tricky choice.

    Having used both, apart from durability, I would choose the 6910 every time. It is very easy to use and I find the feedback you get from it makes fine tuning your grind/dose/tamp intuitive.

    Others may have not had the problems I had with Ms Silvia, but in almost 12 months I was unable to consistently get grind/dose/tamp/TEMP all to align for decent espresso, which was very dis-heartening to be honest.

    I got all of this sorted on the 6910 in under two weeks, and this has been consistent now for several months.

    If you go for the Sylvia, make sure you do a search on "temperature surfing" and "PID", as you will eventually need to address temperature if you want properly good coffee. Maybe not a big deal in itself, but when combined with dose/grind you can easily wind up chasing your tail. Suggest you buy from a sponsor and get training included in the purchase.

    Btw, Silvia has a small water tank (2L) and tiny drip tray (~600ml), so you will be for ever tending to both ;-)

    Good luck with your decision!

    Leave a comment:


  • A_M
    replied
    Re: Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?

    Originally posted by 594E5D191A1B2B0 link=1275790026/12#12 date=1275913870
    Youve got no worries getting shot qualtiy from the Sunbeam, relative to its limitations not mine or my friends. It gives as best it can and my friends are happy with that. Better than 90% of the cafes around at home is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

    I probably made that as clear as mud
    Ya did a good job.. but.... Any number of assumptions and possible points that many would question...

    Would suggest other than the Beans and the Grinder - you and ya friends are the the limitation..

    Do not know of many systems, that can cost in excess of thousands; where teh user is NOT the limitation.... Other than super Autos... But then teh use caused teh problem by buying it

    EM6910 Vs Silvia... Fit for purpose and cost..

    To teh OP - Have a read... A bit dated but on teh money.. No mention of issues as to what beans the machines can not manage.

    http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/**/reviews/sunbeam-silvia/

    Leave a comment:


  • rev210
    replied
    Re: Upgrading from EM6910 to Silvia?

    Originally posted by 69464F4D5A654946494F4D454D465C280 link=1275790026/11#11 date=1275904784
    Please explain this train of thought as to the beans being the critical factor in the manner and context your referring to.

    I would like to know more of the wisdom and of the beans your indicating as being special?
    I dont think Ive got any wisdom to pass on with the beans bit, maybe I do? I kind of assume people find the same thing out over time using different beans.

    Its probably the absence of special in the beans/blends. For some reason I find some beans are just more forgiving. In any combo of prep, pour and taste. I could put this down to different chemicals and bean structure that are responsible for the differences but, I wouldnt know where to point on that one. As an example I find that brazil pulped natural on bean bay to be relatively forgiving (also a bit boring by itself) despite machine. Drink it on a friends 6910, Ikon, ECM it all tastes pretty much the same.

    When you talk about the cheapo devices they do it tough keeping stabillity in the physics happening where it should by comparison to something more commercial. The Sunbeam thermoblock is fighting against small thermal inertia and for what it is it does bloody well. From what I remember it was a tad cold blooded by comparison to the little Ikon in the shots we measured (we were trying to get it bang on). It took a bit longer to get where it needed in the temp during the pour every time. My guess is this is why acidity and intensity was down a little. The basket designs are totally different too and no doubt the pressure of extraction variables are there as well.

    Youve got no worries getting shot qualtiy from the Sunbeam, relative to its limitations not mine or my friends. It gives as best it can and my friends are happy with that. Better than 90% of the cafes around at home is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

    I probably made that as clear as mud ;D

    Leave a comment:

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