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6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

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  • #16
    Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

    AM is spot on.

    Sounds like things have gone from bad to worse. Water spraying everywhere when running the unit WITHOUT coffee in the basket and its time to find a Sunbeam service agent - particularly if youre confident that youve cleaned and re-mounted the seal and shower screen correctly.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

      Black Gold- Have you used the cleaning tool to poke through the tiny single hole in the dual floor baskets! My single shot dual floor was poorly manufactured and mostly blocked out of the box!! I used a pin to open it up before the tool would even come close to going in the hole.

      I can relate to black golds problems... but not as bad in my case.  I purchased my 6910 about 1 month ago and started with the dual floor baskets as I had some crap (supermarket) coffee to use up and I thought would be good to practice with.  

      I had some fairly good results, but experienced some minor leaks as I pushed for longer/slower extractions. I wasnt concerned as I see the dual floors as "coffee with training wheels" anyway. I also had read not to crank the portafilter handle too tight, so thought this was a reason as to the slight leakage.  

      I ran a few empty (ie water) double cup, dual floor basket shots to establish my "sweet spot" on the gauge. It was at 12 oclock. No leaks by the way.

      I progressed to making "real" coffee with the single floor baskets, grinding up some Mocopan beans with my Saeco mac-001 grinder set to around 1.  My experience mirrored Coffee Hombre. I found the single gave more resistance.  

      Since I was paranoid about going Schwarzeneger ?spelling? on the group head I have never been past 6 oclock (I actually thought it stopped there!)  As Ive tried for honey extraction, I got some minor leakage, but worse than that, once the pf handle undid itself with the vibration of the machine during a shot!!  Unfortunately I thought I was at the stage of texturing milk concurrently with the shot when this happened. (part of the reason I didnt notice the handle migrating left!)

      All I can say is that it is amazing how much milk you can blast across your kitchen at full steam!!!    

      So do you think I may just not be tightening the handle enough?

      Am I correct to assume that you dont need to hold your machine down to tighten the handle?   Like if you are dragging the machine are you cranking it too tight?

      My seal seems to be getting better, possibly due to improved grind/tamp, but Im yet to get to my sweet spot. Im wary of another handle blow off... Do they have to be worn in a bit?

      BTW-  The handle has tried to unwind a few time since and I have been carefully monitioring the gauge.  I havent been choking the machine, it has just made it to the sweet spot (maybe a fraction past once).  

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

        Hi guys, i also had the same issues when i first bought my 6910, the group handle un twisting and the leaking. and after reading the posts on this forum i was terrified to push the group handle past 6oclock.
        after much trial and error i find the handle locks in nice at around 5- 5:30 and my sweet spot on the gauge is more around the 1-2 oclock range.
        i hope this helps. i have since had 7 months of trouble free coffee and the group handle is still in the same position.
        Good luck

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

          Originally posted by 3130222C550 link=1276900278/16#16 date=1277042493
          Black Gold- Have you used the cleaning tool to poke through the tiny single hole in the dual floor baskets! My single shot dual floor was poorly manufactured and mostly blocked out of the box!! I used a pin to open it up before the tool would even come close to going in the hole.
          If you opened it up then bin it...

          It is a specific size and has a steep screw pitch...

          Any change to that an bin it...

          Originally posted by 3130222C550 link=1276900278/16#16 date=1277042493
          Am I correct to assume that you dont need to hold your machine down to tighten the handle?   Like if you are dragging the machine are you cranking it too tight?
          Depends.. Words say one thing Actions say another..

          If done correctly.. You should only use teh same force as to lock in an EMPTY group and basket..

          2 + 2 = 5 Thus as the seal gets old OR the group wears a bit; you may need to move more to teh right..

          With the new style lugs... A longer time and only slight additional movements..

          If you leaning on teh machine with one hand/forearm (full body weight) and locking in with the other and biceps are bulging and busting the stitching in teh t-shirt.. Have seen it done...

          Your over doing it; regardless of what training you go by some Expert... AND how much ya paid for teh training...

          Originally posted by 3130222C550 link=1276900278/16#16 date=1277042493
          My seal seems to be getting better, possibly due to improved grind/tamp, but Im yet to get to my sweet spot. Im wary of another handle blow off... Do they have to be worn in a bit?
          Yes and NO.. It will be due to your Beans / Grind and TAMP...

          I get get a perfect hit after one or two shots... On a new machine..

          If I know my beans...

          Use only a non modified double floor basket to test for teh sweet spot...

          BTW-  The handle has tried to unwind a few time since and I have been carefully monitioring the gauge.  I havent been choking the machine, it has just made it to the sweet spot (maybe a fraction past once).  
          Choked... And or not locked in correctly..

          6:00 is a GUIDE... If ya did a 6:00 on the EM69AMB you would not even seal at all ;D


          A seal is at about 4:00 or 5:00 at the best....

          Coffee is not by numbers... If an empty system locks and fees firm at between 5 and 6 then GREAT...

          Q1: If you put coffee in, tamp and lock and its feeling tight before 6 and ya having to use some weight... What would be teh problem ???

          A1:


          PS..

          After testing on a number of machines and about 6 different gauges... AND with independent witnesses etc I am happy to say with some conference, that with a clean, standard double floor (pressurised basket) from a EM69XX series that the Sweet spot your seeing on teh gauge is = 10.2 ~ 10.4 bar ..

          Now before you race off and toss a tanty about a 15bar pump only giving 10.2 or why 10.2 and not 9bar... Do some research and check to see what some of teh prosumer systems are set for and why...

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

            Once again thanks for the advice and input guys, especially AM.

            Starting to feel human again after a couple of coffees this morning from the work machine.

            Still wiping the tears from my eyes picturing Dewys kitchen blasted with a lovely layer of microfoam.

            After following the advice I called Sunbeam this morning and thought you guys (especially you AM) might find this interesting. :-?

            I spoke with the lovely Debbie who advised she has owned a 6910 for 4 years and uses the work one. She was adamant that I was not locking the handle any where near enough and it should be going to at least 5 oclock. She advised that when I lock the group handle in I should brace the machine by placing my left hand on top of the machine and use all my force on the handle as far as it will go to the right. I know I know, I was thinking the same thing. :

            She also advised me to change my grind from 15 to 20 on my em480, even tho I told her I had done the dual layer basket with no coffee and it still leaked.  :-?

            So after those pearls of wisdom I went and got another coffee and have ordered a new seal (local $19) which I will replace myself and see where we are.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

              Hmmmm.....

              You say you noticed the leaks "last week". This implies that you were making coffees successfully prior to this time. Something has changed. I doubt you suddenly lost all ability to feel the correct amount of PF lock.

              If your existing seal is buggered, it will be obvious. No microscope required. By all means fit a new one, but I for one will be interested to know if this cures the issue.

              Good luck.

              PS - refer to replies above for tips on re-fitting the new seal.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                Originally posted by 133D30323A0E163E3D35510 link=1276900278/19#19 date=1277085046
                I spoke with the lovely Debbie who advised she has owned a 6910 for 4 years and uses the work one. She was adamant that I was not locking the handle any where near enough and it should be going to at least 5 oclock. She advised that when I lock the group handle in I should brace the machine by placing my left hand on top of the machine and use all my force on the handle as far as it will go to the right. I know I know, I was thinking the same thing.


                Black and GOLD..


                That was GOLD.... Can I have permission to Quote and provide a copy of to local Sunbeam Service Agents here...

                They would have a fit.. As Other users have said teh same and teh service people here are getting FED UP.. I will let them take it up the Ladder...

                I might even get a Browne point or two.. If they look the other way... I get to raid their trash bin...

                Broken grinders and other goodies...

                Shame ya not around teh corner.. Or another well versed CS with many years of EM69xx experience is not close by; as I would like to understand what is going ON...



                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                  quote edited for brevity

                  Originally posted by 0A24292B23170F27242C480 link=1276900278/19#19 date=1277085046
                  I called Sunbeam and the lovely Debbie was adamant that I was not locking the handle any where near enough and it should be going to at least 5 oclock and locking the group handle in, I should brace the machine by placing my left hand on top of the machine and use all my force on the handle as far as it will go to the right.
                  Shes an amateur Black Gold.  Dont let her timid techniques mislead you as to the true brute force required to get a god shot out of the beamer.  

                  As AM will attest, those in the know (when calling Sunbeam) will not press 1 for customer service or 2 for warranty registration but 11.  It not advertised, you wont hear the option.  Like a trapdoor to a secret Super Mario level, you just have to know its there.  11..... because 10 is just not enough.  

                  Press 11 and wait for Sunbeam Black Ops department who will sell you:
                  a). A set of stirrups
                  b). A TIG welder; and
                  c). A chopped group handle.  Its not the the bottom thats chopped by the way, its the handle.  Cos it needs to be short enough that you can pull it past 7 oclock, past 6, past 5 and get it round the back to...yes, you guessed it.....11 oclock.

                  Good luck, best wishes and may god shots rain down upon you like manna from heaven.


                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                    Ive just got back to work after a change of pants. I pissed myself after reading Epics post.

                    AM feel free to use and quote. By the sounds of it we should perhaps get the Sunbeam helpline staff around to your place for a seminar or two.

                    Will let you know how the new seal goes tonight.

                    Picking up some Espresso Wow beans in a few minutes. Hopefully I will be able to use them. :-/

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                      Originally posted by 08262B2921150D25262E4A0 link=1276900278/23#23 date=1277102787
                      Ive just got back to work after a change of pants. I pissed myself after reading Epics post.

                      AM feel free to use and quote. By the sounds of it we should perhaps get the Sunbeam helpline staff around to your place for a seminar or two.

                      Will let you know how the new seal goes tonight.

                      Picking up some Espresso Wow beans in a few minutes. Hopefully I will be able to use them. :-/
                      Ya he get me every time too... Problem is he is almost correct... The problem is that the special codes are only known to Chinese hackers


                      Black Gold.. Do not let the old seal go..

                      1: If still leaking and you notice on close inspection... It appears more from teh rear of teh group...

                      2: Gauge is also bouncy... Low... Ie just getting up and not across to 11 or even 1..

                      PM me... I know the problem... And teh fix...


                      CH... you do to; but you dont know what you dont know ;D 8-) : :P

                      Epic... Ya care to write a blurb on any other help desk places... Cause ya coffee one needs to be bottled and sealed.. And do you know why.. Because some preach it already and even try to get others to follow..

                      GTG... BBL

                      (If I getting a PM then = WARRANTY... But you will need guidance...)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                        Guidance.

                        Damn those invisible cockroaches !

                        ;D

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                          Calling Black and Gold...

                          Waiting for a confirmation / further feedback as to what you found..

                          CoffeeHouse wants AM to be WRONG again for once  ;D..........  

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                            Sorry for the lag AM, I missed picking up my beans last night so I couldnt test new seal with coffee.

                            I tried the dual layer basket and it didnt leak (only had gh to 6 oclock tho :), so leaning toward seal at the moment, but will let you know after I test it properly tonight.

                            If it is the seal I might send you the original seal as a present, as I still cant see a flaw in it. :-?

                            Brent

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                              AM, machine still leaks and yes is at rear of group. Sometimes just a few drops and sometimes a constant dribble.

                              Ground up fresh beans from Andy tonight and not as much leakage as previous seal but still leakage with double & single basket.

                              Gauge seems to be ok tho, in that it is steady and goes to 12 - 1 oclock.

                              Man it is so frustrating. Maybe I should just try to return it and try and get a better machine of evilbay :-/

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                                Originally posted by 406E6361695D456D6E66020 link=1276900278/28#28 date=1277209478
                                AM, machine still leaks and yes is at rear of group. Sometimes just a few drops and sometimes a constant dribble.

                                Ground up fresh beans from Andy tonight and not as much leakage as previous seal but still leakage with double & single basket.  

                                Gauge seems to be ok tho, in that it is steady and goes to 12 - 1 oclock.

                                Man it is so frustrating. Maybe I should just try to return it and try and get a better machine of evilbay :-/
                                WARRANTY.. Manufacturers Warranty...


                                It is a cracked junction due to either materials and or a person with a strong arm..

                                Thus depending on how hot / cold it is the problem will be so so or BAD..

                                PS... Gut feel is that it is a batch issue... Do not ask.....

                                CH has worked on teh same line; so he is aware, sort of...

                                The line from the T that goes to the gauge and teh dump solenoid also is connected to the head... Where it physical joins the head; it has failed due to materials and or when being tightened..


                                NOTE: Others ON CS have cracked and broken fittings as people forget just how brittle some of these things are. Casting in particular can be quite strong but a flex in the wrong direction and "Crack".

                                Originally posted by 406E6361695D456D6E66020 link=1276900278/28#28 date=1277209478
                                get a better machine of evilbay
                                Na... Unless ya know your stuff and very handy... That auction house has no warranty etc...

                                The new Sunbeams are much improved in most areas... But it does not mean they are fool proof..


                                Warning Barista at work:

                                Yep... Sunbeam and Della Corte have both engaged " TOP CLASS " Baristas (????) to give teh machines an edge..

                                The usual marketing and PR hype that does few any good......

                                The average Home user has no understanding and nor the patience and or skills of a Barista ???


                                They really need a Brain storming session with a few people...

                                CS member or two, Service Agent or two, White-goods sales person and half a dozen people out of homes with no experience / understanding.....


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