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6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

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  • 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

    Hey guys,

    my apologies for the noob questions, I have searched the archives but didnt come across the info or more importantly the advice I am seeking.
    We bought a 6910 on mothers day so weve had it for just over a month and got a 480 grinder a week later. I was as happy as a dog with a tin willy.
    Last week I noticed the group would occasionally leak (more than dripping less than gushing) water during the extraction, and also noticed that the shot was no longer syrup like and lost richness of taste.
    I was adjusting the grind and the dose but still leaking. I made sure rim of gh was clean.
    I was suspecting the couple of times that I had overdosed and 2 times I had choked the machine due to too fine a grind may have backed the 6910 up with some grinds. So, last night I removed the shower screen as per manual to find it was fairly gummed up. I cleaned the machine using a cleaning tablet and rubber insert. I removed the shower screens and found they required further cleaning. I checked the blue seal, gave it a wipe and returned all parts to original positions. Gave it a run and still leaking.
    I was expecting the seal to be the problem (as per other previous posts I read) but it contained no splits :-?
    So, here I sit, in the corner, slowly rocking back and forth, and in need of some wisdom from the Yodas of coffee.
    Brent.

  • #2
    Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

    Originally posted by 143A37353D0911393A32560 link=1276900278/0#0 date=1276900278
    I have searched the archives

    Where are they ??

    Do an advanced search and choose the key word with care..

    Been done to death 1001 times..


    In the first instance - blown collar..

    1: If a new style unit.. Then some one has been overdosing to the MAX..

    2: If ya not locking in correctly... It will leak..

    What gauge reading are you getting ?

    What is the position of ya group when locked in

    What beans

    Which basket... Single or double FLOOR ?

    Have you done teh Sunbeam training ???

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

      Thanks AM for your quick response.

      We were overdosing early on(thanks to instructional video), but thanks to this fantabulous site, did the 5cent test and corrected that.

      gh Normally locks in at between 6 & 7 oclock. Tried more force to between 5 & 6, but leaking still remains.

      Using single floors with Fiefys blend. Best coffee Ive ever used/tasted.
      Gauge reading is normal with single basket and low (below yellow section) on double basket.

      I havent done the Sunbeam training yet, although I have been getting very good results in the cup until this issue arose.

      Brent

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

        Originally posted by 103E3331390D153D3E36520 link=1276900278/2#2 date=1276902394
        Gauge reading is normal with single basket and low (below yellow section) on double basket.

        No ... Read my WORDS... Not what you think I wrote...


        Originally posted by 133C3537201F333C3335373F373C26520 link=1276900278/1#1 date=1276901426
        Which basket... Single or double FLOOR ?
        Say again... Are you using Single or Double floor basket


        Stepped or Sloped lugs on teh group ?

        If leaking at 5 - 6 (Blown seal or it is not in correctly)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

          Check your group collar. Can you feel a lip or burr where it has worn? Does you group handle move to the left when the pump is running? If so could be a worn collar.

          My 6910 is only 2.2 years old and it is in the repairers for its third group collar. I took out an extended warranty so have cover until April 2011.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

            What gauge reading are you getting ?
            single basket needle is at 11 oclock
            double basket needle is at 9 oclock

            usually I would get 12 oclock with either basket.

            Say again... Are you using Single or Double floor basket
            Im using the single floor standard baskets with fresh ground Fiefys blend.

            Stepped or Sloped lugs on the group ?
            Group has sloped lugs. Machine purchased new 5 weeks ago if that helps.

            I appreciate the input AM, I know it must be frustrating to be advising this stuff over and over to noobs like me.

            When I removed and cleaned the shower screens I checked the seal. Is there a definite/obvious tear or fracture that would be present if the seal was blown, as there was no sign of failure when I looked.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

              PM sent

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                Sounds like youre doing everything right, but just as a sanity check:

                Where exactly is the leak coming from? The spout (where it screws onto the PF) has been known to be a source of leakage. With all the steam and spray it can be difficult to tell exactly where the water is emanating from. Just make sure it is in fact from the seal.

                If definitely from the seal, then the physics is fairly simple:

                - make sure the shower screens are very clean and make sure they are correctly seated back into the seal (I fit mine into the seal before puting the seal back into the GH).

                - make sure the seal / shower screen assembly is correctly fitted back into the GH. In particular, make sure you have thoroughly wiped out any trace of grinds etc from inside the GH where the seal sits, and that the seal itself is clean.

                - carefully check that the entire assembly is seated correctly. It can be tricky to do this, so if in doubt, pull the seal out and start again. When youre happy youve done the best job that you can do, replace the screw and tighten securely.

                Now go back to basics. Try a slightly coarser grind and under-dose a little. Make sure the top of the filter is clean, and of course the lugs, before inserting into the GH. Do not overly tighten the PF. 6 oclock, maybe 5:30 should be enough on a new machine. Over tightening sometimes makes the leak worse. Firm, but not crazy tight.

                Watch this extraction very carefully. Still leaking?

                If so - Sunbeam / service time. Youve done all you can.

                One last thing to check. Is your release valve working? In other words, when the extraction finishes, it there a "hiss" and release of water into the drip tray? This is important.

                Let us know how you get on.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                  Originally posted by 5D737E7C74405870737B1F0 link=1276900278/5#5 date=1276918180
                  What gauge reading are you getting ?
                  single basket needle is at 11 oclock
                  double basket needle is at 9 oclock

                  usually I would get 12 oclock with either basket.

                  Say again...  Are you using Single or Double floor basket
                  Im using the single floor standard baskets with fresh ground Fiefys blend.

                  Stepped or Sloped lugs on the group ?
                  Group has sloped lugs. Machine purchased new 5 weeks ago if that helps.

                  I appreciate the input AM, I know it must be frustrating to be advising this stuff over and over to noobs like me.

                  When I removed and cleaned the shower screens I checked the seal. Is there a definite/obvious tear or fracture that would be present if the seal was blown, as there was no sign of failure when I looked.
                  1: Single @ 11 and double @ 9 ... Does not compute...

                  If same grind and tamp... Would expect the other way round..


                  2: With a dual floor basket and no coffee, run a couple of manual shots; what does the gauge read and are you getting any leaks then..


                  3: As to split in seal etc... If it is you will see it.. But people do put in teh wrong way.. However that means the problem happens afterwards not before.


                  What Grinder - Make and model..


                  And

                  What Beans - from where and how fresh ?


                  Originally posted by 527A7E71655D7A7E71651F0 link=1276900278/4#4 date=1276916791
                  My 6910 is only 2.2 years old and it is in the repairers for its third group collar.
                  Would not be advertising that one does not know how to use a coffee machine... Only way to blow them - is to miss use/ miss treat :


                  In addition I trust you dont tamp or polish teh puck... Because if your over dosing... There is no need to to... Just fill till over flowing and lock in.. No difference :-X

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                    Single 11, double 9 - apart from being a little on the low side, this makes sense to me Mark (ie, the single is easier to choke in my experience). Im curious to know why you think it should be the opposite. Please enlighten knowledgeable one

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                      Originally posted by 636F666665655F686F6D627265000 link=1276900278/9#9 date=1276941943
                      Single 11, double 9 - apart from being a little on the low side, this makes sense to me Mark (ie, the single is easier to choke in my experience). Im curious to know why you think it should be the opposite. Please enlighten knowledgeable one    
                      Stated ASSUMPTIONS...  Same grind and same tamp used for single and double...

                      Single is not as deep so will allow the water to get to the other side a bit quicker (not so far to travel) and also very open to channelling ...

                      Thus when using singles; one usually has to manage the Tamp and Grind much better, as not so forgiving... Opps = Gusher  ;D

                      Grind finer / Tamp harder etc etc... A balancing act.  

                      PS... Your post was good...  So many un knowns..  

                      But a blown collar in a couple 0f months with the new lugs ???  Either forearms like Arny on Super roids or some additional info/data is not available / yet to be provided...

                      I mean I did my lug mod to a system with a worn collar before x-mas and at least 4 different people abuse it and one security guard loves to make hot  milk chock and thinks he wips the steam wand... Er the wand has a back and if ya not careful or dont purge afterwards.. The nozzle blocks..  

                      We are thinking of a clever way to trap him...  Epsom salts in the water... Would make an interesting steam  ;D  

                      ***  Problem is flushing afterwards and knowing ya got it all out  ;D


                      So, why would a worn system with a peened out collar and at least 4 abusive users last longer than a new system..  I have an as new system here and much better than what I ever had...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                        Interesting. My experience with same grind same tamp is the reverse. I find It much easier to choke the single, and my theory is that it is because it has less holes on the bottom. But, there are so many variables not the least of which is the coffee itself. I think I have a tendency to tamp on the heavy side too, and the single is less forgiving.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                          Originally posted by 767A737370704A7D7A78776770150 link=1276900278/11#11 date=1276961514
                          Interesting. My experience with same grind same tamp is the reverse. I find It much easier to choke the single, and my theory is that it is because it has less holes on the bottom. But, there are so many variables not the least of which is the coffee itself. I think I have a tendency to tamp on the heavy side too, and the single is less forgiving.  
                          Then again... Assumptions on my part... Only ever used a double... Singles in other stystems and that could also explain what you and I see.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                            With a dual floor basket and no coffee, run a couple of manual shots; what does the gauge read and are you getting any leaks then..
                            AM, I used the dual floor double shot basket with no coffee and water leaked / gushed with more freedom than single floor basket with tamped coffee. I did it twice as you suggested. 1st time Pressure gauge was slow to respond but reached approx 8 oclock. 2nd time pressure gauge responded one line from starting position. And water pissing out around the handle.

                            Is your release valve working? In other words, when the extraction finishes, it there a "hiss" and release of water into the drip tray? This is important.

                            Not so much a hiss after I pull a shot but there is a release (dripping water) into the drip tray via the release in the rear below the tray.


                            My grinder is a Sunbeam EM480, I am using Fiefys Blend beans from CS that are 3-4 weeks old.

                            I am far from an experienced tech but when I compare the pics of worn collars on this site to my machine, mine look new. Even the gh has only the slightest of scratches where it lock in.
                            Thanks to all the good info Ive read on this site I made sure that we (wife an I) didnt get "Arny" on the gh. ;D

                            The 2 things that stump me are, why is this happening when the machine is practically new, and why does the seal have no splits when this clearly seems to be the offending area.

                            thanks once again for your help and input guys.
                            Brent

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 6910 leaking around group. Advice needed from wise heads.

                              Originally posted by 09272A2820140C24272F4B0 link=1276900278/13#13 date=1276994917
                              AM, I used the dual floor double shot basket with no coffee and water leaked / gushed with more freedom than single floor basket with tamped coffee. I did it twice as you suggested. 1st time Pressure gauge was slow to respond but reached approx 8 oclock. 2nd time pressure gauge responded one line from starting position. And water pissing out around the handle.
                              CH and others wil tell you that this is not normal..

                              The gauge is either stuffed and or you have a issue with teh machine..

                              1: Did not think teh collar would be dead... But the symptoms point that way..


                              2: Do a backflush with teh rubber blind as per teh manual.. do not need a cleaning tab...

                              If leaking / spitting and gauge does not reach at least 11:00

                              I would be returning... Err contacting Sumbean ASAP.

                              My ph number is available by pm..

                              But give Sunbeam a go... Sounds like a machine problem...

                              Comment

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