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Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

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  • pidsilvia
    replied
    Re: Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

    Hi,

    1. when wrapping the steam pipe, you should not have the insulation overlapping like in the picture at the previous post, you should start the overlap only on the way down.   you can only have 1/8" of material on top.  you should have the clearance if you dont overlap at the top.

    2. this material is very soft, in most cases you can fit it with no cutting. (push or stuff it in for better fit)

    3. i will add some notes in the instruction regarding this.

    i hope this helps.   i can better reply to emails.

    Thank You !

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

    Originally posted by 606B716A706F6D64030 link=1309610800/13#13 date=1310190408
    Edit. I had to remove the insulation from the top section of the steam pipe as clearance was an issue. So now I have only insulated the steam pipes lower half.
    Did you try "Butt Wrapping" the Steam Pipe rather than the "Half Lap" method you used? Im sure this would still provide adequate insulation but maybe reduce the need for extra clearance.... 8-)

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrDerrickC
    replied
    Re: Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

    Interesting that it doesnt include the steam and grouphead..... doesnt make sense. The photo from their site shows the non cut covering the steam pipe and I would assume grouphead too.

    The material is very easy to cut with sharp scissors, I cut some of the left over pieces that they included to cover some parts of the steam valve.

    Leave a comment:


  • PaulMagee
    replied
    Re: Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

    I did write of to ask about the uncut 12"x12"x1/4" with template kit did it include 1/8" thick foam for the steam pipe & grouphead. The answer was no but there was enough material to splice it. I guess with a steady hand and sharp knife this wouldnt be too difficult and the cost is $36 instead of $50 plus postage. Good tip about lifting the top panel up from MrDerrickC.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrDerrickC
    replied
    Re: Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

    Originally posted by 3B302A312B34363F580 link=1309610800/13#13 date=1310190408
    Edit. I had to remove the insulation from the top section of the steam pipe as clearance was an issue. So now I have only insulated the steam pipes lower half.
    I had the same problem, what I did was put some rubber washers under the 4 screws to lift the top panel up a bit. This ensured that it had the clearance and also some ventilation, worked a treat.

    Originally posted by 58697D6445696F6D6D080 link=1309610800/15#15 date=1310260624
    Those of you that have bought from Pidsilvia.com did you purchase the pre-cut kit, kit with template or sheet?
    I bought pre-cut but having installed it and cut it now you could save money and just go with a template as the material is very easy to cut.

    Leave a comment:


  • chrislng
    replied
    Re: Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

    Note in my previous post. I had to remove the wrapping from the top half of the steam pipe due to clearance issues.

    But I dont mind having it partly exposed as I still have a cup warmer 8-)

    I have dealt with PIDSILVIA before for a flat shower screen and they deliver promptly. But that said I have watched his YouTube video which serves as the instructions and note; the way he wraps the steam pipe you would never be able close it up again without trying to warp the cup warmer as the pipe sits mms below the tray.

    Words of caution the guy from PIDSILVIA fully removed the boiler from the machine... which in my opinion is not an option taken lightly. I was able to do it without doing a full removal but when attempting this it helps to have a second pair of hands as removing the front panel of the Silvia to access above the group is tricky without someone to hold it while you manoeuvre everything into place.






    Leave a comment:


  • chrislng
    replied
    Re: Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

    I bought the pre-cut.

    I actually had to cut a piece down that inserts over the group head. As in its original size there was too much overhand and I couldnt get the plastic group head cover to fit back neatly.

    But in cutting it down its fiddly stuff as it warps when you try to cut it. Using something like a very sharp knife is better than say scissors.

    Leave a comment:


  • PaulMagee
    replied
    Re: Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

    Thankyou all for the feedback.
    I,m really encouraged to go ahead with the silicon foam and called into Clark Rubber Balcatta thinking theyre sure to have it. They had offcuts but it was working out much cheaper to buy the already cut kit plus postage from the US. Im thinking It may be an opportunity for one of the CS sponsors to offer this foam as sheets or kits for the Australian market.
    Those of you that have bought from Pidsilvia.com did you purchase the pre-cut kit, kit with template or sheet?
    I feel like drinking those two InTheCup coffees now.

    Leave a comment:


  • chrislng
    replied
    Re: Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

    This mornings proof lol!





    Leave a comment:


  • chrislng
    replied
    Re: Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

    Edit. I had to remove the insulation from the top section of the steam pipe as clearance was an issue. So now I have only insulated the steam pipes lower half.

    Leave a comment:


  • chrislng
    replied
    Re: Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

    I have done a few Mods to my Silvia i.e. the one you are proposing and I have found it has made a pleasurable difference. The insulation around the group head especially.

    Be warned though.. its tricky!

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

    No worries mate....

    Mal.

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  • JoeC
    replied
    Re: Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

    Originally posted by 45686C606D010 link=1309610800/9#9 date=1309874768
    In this instance, Im afraid you are wrong Joe.

    There are many webpages around, that go into considerable detail over design issues with regard to Process Control and the underlying Physics involved, and I would recommend that you Google for them. This is not really the forum to start a discussion into the detailed engineering involved as most people would consider it too geeky Id reckon.....

    Mal.
    More than OK with being wrong, and glad to learn something useful. Thanks for taking the time Mal.

    Joe

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

    Originally posted by 0E2B2107440 link=1309610800/8#8 date=1309858891
    I understand your point Firepower, and Im not an engineer, so Im sure others can easily correct me if Im way off base here, but I was led to believe that insulating small PIDd boilers could lead to less responsive machines and longer recovery time.
    This assumption is incorrect Joe. Responsiveness is entirely a function of mass versus Input minus Losses. The insulation will add to stability and responsiveness will be improved since losses have less of an impact.

    Originally posted by 0E2B2107440 link=1309610800/8#8 date=1309858891
    If you insulate the boiler, you cant afford to let the temp overshoot, because it will take ages to drop back down to correct temp. This means VERY conservative PID settings and a machine that is less responsive.
    After insulating the Boiler, it may be a good idea to re-run the Auto-Tune function or closely monitor for changes in performance and adjust PID parameters accordingly, if required. The sorts of overshoot mentioned by Kevin would be small and also immediately soaked up by cooler metalwork. Equilibrium would be attained very quickly. Your concerns are really groundless.

    Any changes to parameters would be quite small in my opinion, if even needed and will vary from one PID Controller design to another so blanket statements of this kind are really meaningless.

    Originally posted by 0E2B2107440 link=1309610800/8#8 date=1309858891
    An example is the DB Izzo Alex Duetto, where they insulate the steam boiler, but leave the brew boiler uninsulated.
    One doesnt have anything to do with the other as a matter of fact. In the case of my Dual Boiler machine, the Brew Boiler is insulated and the steam Boiler not so.

    It comes down to individual designers experiences and perceptions, as much as any basic engineering criteria.

    Originally posted by 0E2B2107440 link=1309610800/8#8 date=1309858891
    Again, I could be very wrong, not trying to start an argument, just curious.
    In this instance, Im afraid you are wrong Joe.

    There are many webpages around, that go into considerable detail over design issues with regard to Process Control and the underlying Physics involved, and I would recommend that you Google for them. This is not really the forum to start a discussion into the detailed engineering involved as most people would consider it too geeky Id reckon.....

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeC
    replied
    Re: Silvia - Boiler insulation Pros & Cons

    I understand your point Firepower, and Im not an engineer, so Im sure others can easily correct me if Im way off base here, but I was led to believe that insulating small PIDd boilers could lead to less responsive machines and longer recovery time.

    If you insulate the boiler, you cant afford to let the temp overshoot, because it will take ages to drop back down to correct temp. This means VERY conservative PID settings and a machine that is less responsive.

    An example is the DB Izzo Alex Duetto, where they insulate the steam boiler, but leave the brew boiler uninsulated.

    Again, I could be very wrong, not trying to start an argument, just curious.

    Joe

    Leave a comment:

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